Looking for my first aircraft...

[flyboy2548m]

Hmm... Upon further investigation of the "placards" on the panel, it would appear that you are correct. Where I come from, however, we make the mixture red and the throttle black.

What a pity. And here I thought "where you came from" was an engineering school where you looked at as much data as possible before blurting something out, but alas....

[IntheShade]

Chris--if for your first aircraft going rung bottom inexpensive I don't have a problem with it, and there is nothing wrong with it but don't let that be a race to the bottom such as the first modified Taylorcraft. In the long run it will cost you much more.

You are correct looking at Taylorcraft because they are the most inexpensive airplane you can buy along with the Aeronica Chief and Piper J-4 (Of which I would own/buy neither).

The high cost items on any fabric airplane are the cover job and engine. Examine both carefully along with damage history. There are enough airplanes for sale that I would not buy an airplane with a major structural repair. This does not include replacement of the wing spar. Wing spar replacement is not that big of deal in this class airplane if it were just part of a routine cover job/maintenance however it could also be done for other reasons which are red flag such as a accident.

For some reason the Taylorcraft has long been the bottom segment ot the market for tailwheel airplanes yet really is a great airplane. I have several times considered buying one to do a Swick conversion on. I used to fly one in High School with this type conversion (although not the Swick version) that had been converted to a single stick and seat and a O-320 (If I remember correctly) and the words Duane Cole written on the fuselage upside down. The airplane was highly modified but it really set the hook in me for a Taylorcraft one day (Duane was a good friend of mineand during High School worked with me on aerobatics).

If you buy a Taylorcraft it is an aircraft you can keep forever and never have a desire to sell while the J-4 and Chief will provide years of enjoyment you will eventually want another airplane.

But-----as much as I like the Taylorcraft if I were you I would try and focus on a Luscombe, Piper Pacer/Colt, Piper Cub, Aeronica Champ, or Cessna 120/140. These are all either close or slightly more than the Taylorcraft and airplanes you would enjoy much more. The caution on the Luscombe is you don;t want the fuel injected engine and the landing gear is weak in sideload although very strong if flown correctly. I also included the Piper Pacer because it has a tailwheel and is four place. It really is a little more of a traveling airplane than the others and cost more although can be found at a reasonable price if that is the type aircraft you're looking for.

You also want to stick with Lycoming or Continental engines but not Franklin. There are a few oddball engines such as the O-290 that are not as desireable to own such as the O-320 or Cont 65/85.

In addition with a fabric airplane you have to have a hangar for it.

If you have a question please ask and I will try to help.

[J]

Perhaps the two previous posts are among the finest examples of the differences represented by the resident experts on these pages.

[GlennAB1]

In addition with a fabric airplane you have to have a hangar for it.

Why is that?

And, how does that compare to cheap composites?

[flyboy2548m]

Perhaps the two previous posts are among the finest examples of the differences represented by the resident experts on these pages.

Perhaps. Much like your post is among the finest examples of just wasting bandwidth.

[GerryW]

Perhaps the two previous posts are among the finest examples of the differences represented by the resident experts on these pages.

Perhaps. Much like your post is among the finest examples of just wasting bandwidth.

so do you...

[flyboy2548m]

Perhaps the two previous posts are among the finest examples of the differences represented by the resident experts on these pages.

Perhaps. Much like your post is among the finest examples of just wasting bandwidth.

so do you...

So do I what, Gerry? BTW, how is America so far?

[GerryW]

BTW, how is America so far?

Perfectly!

[Dmmoore]

In addition with a fabric airplane you have to have a hangar for it.

Why is that?

And, how does that compare to cheap composites?

It isn't required "BUT" The costs to recover an un-hangared Super Cub will run 50% higher than the cost to cover a hangared aircraft. Environmental damage to the steel tube fuselage is the reason. I have replaces all of the lower fuselage longerons on more than one rag aircraft. I have rebuilt several PA-18's and PA-12's along with a PA-14 and a Champ. The Champ (7EC) had to have both wooden spars replaced due to dry rot.

Without a hangar the life expectancy of Grade "A" cotton is about 5 years. A quality synthetic fabric cover (such as CECONITE) will last about 10 years. The local weather and exposure to direct sunlight will determine the fabrics life.

With a hangar the covering will last 3 to 4 times longer.

The cost to recover a Super Cub is between US$10,000 hangared and can exceed $15,000 un-hangared.

Assume you own the aircraft for 30 years, didn't keep it hangared and the aircraft required three re-coverings at a cost of US$15,000 each or US$45,000.

Assume you own the aircraft for 30 years and kept it hangared. The cost to recover the aircraft could be zero. The hangar gives you a convenient place to store, clean and play with your toy. You also get to park your car under cover while you fly!

I kept my Super Cub on floats during the summer. The winter saw it flown to the strip behind my house, the wings were removed and the aircraft stored in the garage. The Floats stayed at Lake Hood.

"IF" I were to buy another aircraft (I won't, with ALS my medical is a thing of the past), it would have a hangar. It's part of the cost of ownership.

Composites aren't Cheap! A factory produced (autoclave cured) aircraft is as good (maybe a bit better) at handling the elements as metal. One built and cured at room temperatures would benefit from a hangar.

[supersean]

Hmm... Upon further investigation of the "placards" on the panel, it would appear that you are correct. Where I come from, however, we make the mixture red and the throttle black.

What a pity. And here I thought "where you came from" was an engineering school where you looked at as much data as possible before blurting something out, but alas....

Again... puppy mill bottom of the barrel aviation institution... unlike

[PurduePilot]

Hmm... Upon further investigation of the "placards" on the panel, it would appear that you are correct. Where I come from, however, we make the mixture red and the throttle black.

What a pity. And here I thought "where you came from" was an engineering school where you looked at as much data as possible before blurting something out, but alas....

Again... puppy mill bottom of the barrel aviation institution... unlike

What is your age again?

[flyboy2548m]

Bradley, you make me sad. That big red knob is the throttle. There is no mixture adjustment on a Continental 65. Alas...

Hmm... Upon further investigation of the "placards" on the panel, it would appear that you are correct. Where I come from, however, we make the mixture red and the throttle black.

Keep in mind also that when you have an electrical failure in the middle of the night, all those colored knobs will all be the same color-DARK. That's where a knob substantially different in size from the others can be of great help.

[OldSowBreath]

Bradley, you make me sad. That big red knob is the throttle. There is no mixture adjustment on a Continental 65. Alas...

Hmm... Upon further investigation of the "placards" on the panel, it would appear that you are correct. Where I come from, however, we make the mixture red and the throttle black.

Keep in mind also that when you have an electrical failure in the middle of the night, all those colored knobs will all be the same color-DARK. That's where a knob substantially different in size from the others can be of great help.

That's what I tell all my girlfriends!

[Peminu]

That's what I tell all my girlfriends!

Naked and in the woods?

[rattler]

Vector,

You might want to consider going for a nice Do 27: Reliable, excellent air-to-ground visibility, spacey, friendly, and STOL (VTOL at 38kn head wind ). Maybe a bit loud and heavy on the consumption and maintenance side, though:

A nice vintage version (her in Spain):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUYu1AWOi2Q

Vertical vis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_mMk_JWyWA

VTOL at stall speed (40 kn)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAlnhKxx244

A luxury version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9Xhv55O0Tg

Rattler

[rattler]

Hmmmm....

Nobody seems needs to reply, am I missing somethig? Form the expert´s on this forum POV the Do 27 is not a good choice?

Rattler

[flyboy2548m]

Hmmmm....

Nobody seems needs to reply, am I missing somethig? Form the expert´s on this forum POV the Do 27 is not a good choice?

Rattler

It may well be a great choice, but it's extremely rare in North America. I've never even seen one advertised for sale.

[rattler]

rare, might be, but there is a community down there (flew one in Ft. Lauterdale beginning of the ´80s), most come from Israel (at least 16 are currently registered, many more await restoration): http://www.utility-aircraft.com/planes/ ... A-do27.htm

At the prices they are for sale down there (50k-90k $ is what I have seen on the net, 3 for sale currently), it might be a nice holiday job to fly one that is *much* cheaper from Europe to the US via Russia/Alaska, just an idea? It goes low on octanes and has a range of 1000k for each refill, plenty hours to be logged...

Ferry details:

http://www.utility-aircraft.com/ferry_flight/

Also there are more than 50 airworthy CASA C127 (the same plane) in Spain available http://www.aviationcorner.net/show_photo.asp?id=7013.

Spare parts in the US are no prob, espeically as the Lycoming was a common engine.

FAQ: http://do27.com/do27_en/fragen.htm (in English)

Just the profile (airfoil) is worth a buy (though the 45flaps setting is not allowed anymore):



You can see from my enthusiasm that I am just waiting for the lottery to hit...

Rattler

[flyboy2548m]

rare, might be, but there is a community down there (flew one in Ft. Lauterdale beginning of the ´80s), most come from Israel (at least 16 are currently registered, many more await restoration): http://www.utility-aircraft.com/planes/ ... A-do27.htm

At the prices they are for sale down there (50k-90k $ is what I have seen on the net, 3 for sale currently), it might be a nice holiday job to fly one that is *much* cheaper from Europe to the US via Russia/Alaska, just an idea? It goes low on octanes and has a range of 1000k for each refill, plenty hours to be logged...

Please tell me you're not serious, Mr. Van Winkle.

[rattler]

Serious.

...A time frame of one weeks has to be considered; for example a STOL Dornier, flying most of 9 days, it took 48h from Paris to New-York the far northern route....

http://www.utility-aircraft.com/ferry_flight/

Rattler

[VectorForFood]

Interesting enough rattler, I like to think of myself as a good pilot, but perhaps not one so good as to want to trek across so many miles of nothingness.

[IntheShade]

Chris--I think an trip like this is perfect for you.

I know I would read every detail of the misadventure.

[Dmmoore]

The DO-28A-1 (Twin Engine development of the DO-27) was used for ice fog dispersal at ANC for many years.

As good an aircraft as the Donner aircraft may be, product support is lacking, operating costs are high and the unusual design makes them very poor choices for a first aircraft.

[rattler]

Interesting enough rattler, I like to think of myself as a good pilot, but perhaps not one so good as to want to trek across so many miles of nothingness.

I am not saying this would not be a "project", but also nothing so far out that today a prepared and dedicated pilot should have to refrain from considering to venture it. We are talking max 650 km jumps here.

Rattler

[flyboy2548m]

I am not saying this would not be a "project", but also nothing so far out that today a prepared and dedicated pilot should have to refrain from considering to venture it. We are talking max 650 km jumps here.

Rattler

Yes, but Wonnzie has never owned an aircraft before, which makes him unprepared. He doesn't need an aircraft that will need more nursing than flying.