#27 - what a dork !

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FrankM
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#27 - what a dork !

Postby FrankM » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:01 pm

I'm by no means an American Football expert. And as "brilliant" as Manning's pass might have been - that defense guy ( "cornerback" ? ) must have been watching a big boobed cheerleader right then. Oh man, throwing away a perfect season with such a silly mistake !

Ok, I now go back into my Kraut corner and discuss real football ... :mrgreen:
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el
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Re: #27 - what a dork !

Postby el » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:18 pm

Ok, I now go back into my Kraut corner and discuss real football ...
I haven't realised yet we were discussing rugby there. :mrgreen:

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FrankM
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Re: #27 - what a dork !

Postby FrankM » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:22 pm

Ok, I now go back into my Kraut corner and discuss real football ...
I haven't realised yet we were discussing rugby there. :mrgreen:
Have to admit that rugby players (or Aussie rules players) are the real men. Neither do they wear any protection like the American sissies, neither are the rolling around on the floor for minutes after a little pokey like the European sissies.
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Half Bottle
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Re: #27 - what a dork !

Postby Half Bottle » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:34 pm

I'm by no means an American Football expert. And as "brilliant" as Manning's pass might have been - that defense guy ( "cornerback" ? ) must have been watching a big boobed cheerleader right then. Oh man, throwing away a perfect season with such a silly mistake !
Assuming you mean the pass that he threw about 30 yards after escaping the sack, it was actually a very, very good defensive play by the safety (#37), Rodney Harrison. He made a good hit and simultaneously swiped at the ball and actually succeeded in dislodging in from the receiver's hands. The receiver just made one of the most phenomenal catches you will ever see after that, by pinning the ball against his helmet and then getting both hands on it right before he hit the ground. All credit on that one goes to the receiver for the catch and Manning (not for the throw itself, which was unspectacular, but for escaping the sack and keeping his balance long enough to get the ball downfield).
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FrankM
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Re: #27 - what a dork !

Postby FrankM » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:44 pm

I'm talking about the final deciding touchdown with some 30 seconds to go.
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Re: #27 - what a dork !

Postby sindeewell » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:55 pm

I refuse to talk about it ...at all. :evil: :roll:
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Re: #27 - what a dork !

Postby Half Bottle » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:20 pm

I'm talking about the final deciding touchdown with some 30 seconds to go.
Ahh, well yes, that was bad. The Pats almost had to be blitzing since they had left Burress covered one-on-one on the outside like that. So the cornerback, since he had no help, had to make a decision and he decided to cover the slant (inside route) expecting that his rushers would get to Manning quicky due to the blitz. When Burress faked the slant but actuall ran a corner (outside route) the defender was already committed and so he was beaten badly.

So, although it looked like the cornerback was a dolt, he may have been doing the right thing, but the pass rush just didn't get there in time.
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FrankM
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Re: #27 - what a dork !

Postby FrankM » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:34 pm

I'm talking about the final deciding touchdown with some 30 seconds to go.
Ahh, well yes, that was bad. The Pats almost had to be blitzing since they had left Burress covered one-on-one on the outside like that. So the cornerback, since he had no help, had to make a decision and he decided to cover the slant (inside route) expecting that his rushers would get to Manning quicky due to the blitz. When Burress faked the slant but actuall ran a corner (outside route) the defender was already committed and so he was beaten badly.

So, although it looked like the cornerback was a dolt, he may have been doing the right thing, but the pass rush just didn't get there in time.
Okokok. Guess I shouldn't be talking about things I don't understand. But not that I'm here: It WAS a one-on-one situation, right ? If so, why didn't the cornerback just STAY with him ? The ball travelled a long time, why did he have to decide early ? Errm, and what is blitzing ?

*genuinelyinterested*
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Half Bottle
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Re: #27 - what a dork !

Postby Half Bottle » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:44 pm

Okokok. Guess I shouldn't be talking about things I don't understand. But not that I'm here: It WAS a one-on-one situation, right ?
Yes.
why didn't the cornerback just STAY with him ?
The receiver (Burress) is one of the best in the NFL. Very tall and very fast. Most teams will not play him one-on-one very often and when you do, it's a risk the defense is taking.

My theory above is just my guess. I could be wrong about the defensive strategy employed on that play, but it did look to me as though the defender was intentionally playing the inside move under the assumption that the pass rush would get there so quickly that the Giants wouldn't have time to throw outside. However, it's entirely possible that you are right and he just blew the coverage.

The ball travelled a long time, why did he have to decide early ?
The ball may have traveled a long way, but the throw actually happened very quickly. I'd say Manning passed the ball after only about 2 seconds. The defender definitely went the wrong way, but it happened fast. I'd say it's somwhat similar to a goalkeeper diving left when the ball goes right. If he does that when a bad player is taking the free kick, then he's an idiot. If it's Zidane, then maybe he just had to make a choice and chose wrong.
Errm, and what is blitzing ?
A blitz is any time that the defense sends more than four defenders after the quarterback. With four men rushing, you have seven remaining to cover the receivers. If you send more than four, your chances of getting to the quarterback quickly are increased, but you have fewer men defending the receivers and opens up more one-on-one situations that the quarterback can exploit if he has time before getting hit.
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Re: #27 - what a dork !

Postby Verbal » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:02 pm

I refuse to talk about it ...at all. :evil: :roll:
But you just did.
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FrankM
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Re: #27 - what a dork !

Postby FrankM » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:12 pm

Verbal, thanks a lot for the enlightning. Makes a lot of sense to me what you're saying. So, it looked bad, but maybe he really isn't to blame. Thanks anyway.
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Half Bottle
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Re: #27 - what a dork !

Postby Half Bottle » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:19 pm

Verbal, thanks a lot for the enlightning. Makes a lot of sense to me what you're saying. So, it looked bad, but maybe he really isn't to blame. Thanks anyway.
One other thing: all credit on that play to Burress. Even though I was offering an explanation for why the defender may have made the choices he did, those choices were entirely influenced by the terrific route running by Burress. I haven't seen the replays, but if my memory is correct, Burress did a terrific job of selling an inside route and got the defender to turn his hips slightly toward the middle of the field (for all of the reasons described above). Burress then broke back outside at precisely the best possible moment and that was what created the remarkable separation between him and the defender.
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FrankM
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Re: #27 - what a dork !

Postby FrankM » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:54 pm

and that was what created the remarkable separation between him and the defender.
I guess, this is what stunned me. I used to play field hockey which has a lot to do with one-on-one situations (at least then it had) and it's always possible that a good offense player is that one half step ahead of you in that very split second. But for a separation like that our drill seargent coach would have sent me running 5 laps and do 20 push ups. But of course, running at that speed making or wrong move in the deciding moment of course can have a big effect. Probably it was risky business for both offense and defense and we'll never know if it was extremely brilliant or just pure luck ...
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