WTF....

[supersean]

I'm really starting to sense a trend here... can anyone share with me POSITIVE things unions do in this day & age?

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/region ... position=0

Union head Richard Stutman bristled at criticism he doesn’t have his members’ interest at heart. “We’re not taking money away from teachers,” Stutman claimed.

He also objected to the suggestions his union is a foe of school reform, insisting he backs the incentive program - so long as the bonus goes to all teachers, not just AP instructors.

“There’s no one solely responsible for the development of these students,” Stutman said. “They should all share in the money.”

[supersean]

And against a Eagle Scout project??!!!

http://www.mcall.com/news/all-a8_5scout ... 8384.story

[PurduePilot]

For example, the city currently does not have an electrician available because of the layoffs and an employee on an extended sick leave. As a result, the city has been forced to hire an outside union electrician to oversee the installation for the popular Lights on the Parkway holiday display.

"In the spirit of the holiday, we decided to let that go," Balzano said.

So they get pissed off at a Boy Scout for having a service project doing something which it sounds like the city had no interest in doing anyway, but they don't mind when the city HIRES a non-union contractor to set up their Christmas lights? f*** unions.

[Sickbag]

I'm really starting to sense a trend here... can anyone share with me POSITIVE things unions do in this day & age?

They piss you off ,which is nice...

[supersean]

For example, the city currently does not have an electrician available because of the layoffs and an employee on an extended sick leave. As a result, the city has been forced to hire an outside union electrician to oversee the installation for the popular Lights on the Parkway holiday display.

"In the spirit of the holiday, we decided to let that go," Balzano said.

So they get pissed off at a Boy Scout for having a service project doing something which it sounds like the city had no interest in doing anyway, but they don't mind when the city HIRES a non-union contractor to set up their Christmas lights? f*** unions.

I honestly would like to see people share POSITIVE things that unions do... I really do want to believe that they do some good.

[PurduePilot]

For example, the city currently does not have an electrician available because of the layoffs and an employee on an extended sick leave. As a result, the city has been forced to hire an outside union electrician to oversee the installation for the popular Lights on the Parkway holiday display.

"In the spirit of the holiday, we decided to let that go," Balzano said.

So they get pissed off at a Boy Scout for having a service project doing something which it sounds like the city had no interest in doing anyway, but they don't mind when the city HIRES a non-union contractor to set up their Christmas lights? f*** unions.

I honestly would like to see people share POSITIVE things that unions do... I really do want to believe that they do some good.

They have done wonders for improving the stability and success of the American auto industry. Oh wait...

[Putt4Par]

Unions served their purpose at one point in time but they are now obsolete. They protect the interests of a few at huge expense . They affect our industry and our overall economy.

Unfortunately our president is a big fan of SEIU and visits with SEIU's leader (a known socialist) on a regular basis. That says
a lot about his intentions. You know....all that redistribution of wealth.

[Verbal]

Strikes are so 20th century. We're not talking about 9 year-olds working in coal mines here, folks.

As for something positive to say about unions? They have a purpose as a collective bargaining unit, negotiating pay and benefits for a large group of employees. That's about it.

[Sickbag]

a known socialist)

The horror!

LOL

[supersean]

As for something positive to say about unions? They have a purpose as a collective bargaining unit, negotiating pay and benefits for a large group of employees. That's about it.

Is there a way that we could maintain this capability (which seems like a valid one) without the threat of strikes? Is this "service"still even needed in the aerospace industry? I am by no means an expert on labor conditions but use the semiconductor industry (here in the US) as a comparison for a highly skilled engineering and labor force that works off of market conditions.

Employees for clients I work with seem to be quite happy with compensation & conditions regardless of the location in which they work in. Another argument I commonly hear is oversight of workplace safety. Safety factors and oversight are now regulated by federal, state and local authorities... is there industry specific conditions that would require a 3rd party advocate on workers behalf?

Again, I want this thread to evolve into a fruitful discussion not blatant union bashing.

[Sickbag]

As for something positive to say about unions? They have a purpose as a collective bargaining unit, negotiating pay and benefits for a large group of employees. That's about it.

Is there a way that we could maintain this capability (which seems like a valid one) without the threat of strikes?

No.

[supersean]

As for something positive to say about unions? They have a purpose as a collective bargaining unit, negotiating pay and benefits for a large group of employees. That's about it.

Is there a way that we could maintain this capability (which seems like a valid one) without the threat of strikes?

No.

Why not? Is there no other way to leverage the workforce in negotiations?

[Digger]

Strikes are so 20th century. We're not talking about 9 year-olds working in coal mines here, folks.

As for something positive to say about unions? They have a purpose as a collective bargaining unit, negotiating pay and benefits for a large group of employees. That's about it.

I think you're taking far too narrow a view.

Unions have a purpose, as part of a system of checks and balances that ensures business doesn't take too much advantage of labor. We're not talking about 9 year olds working in coal mines here. A big part of what's hurt the power of unions here is that business discovered that they can be more profitable having their work done by the non-unionized workforce in less developed parts of the world. I believe I've said it before--American labor would be helped immeasurably; American unions would be that much more relevant, if some union would go and organize a few billion Chinese.

And further, about 9 year olds in coal mines, some will make the argument that unions have outlived their usefulness because we now enjoy the protection of laws that prevent that sort of abuse, and much more. That's certainly true, but I don't think you can discount the voting power of organized labor in attaining those improvements. It follows then, that the voting power of organized labor is a force to protect and maintain those improvements. One need only look as far as the clothes on retailers' shelves to see that kids in sweatshops are not beyond the moral limits of business. It may not happen on our shores any more, but it still goes on, and it's on sale now, just in time for Christmas.

Is there a way that we could maintain this capability (which seems like a valid one) without the threat of strikes?

No.

One need only look as far as NATCA, and its predecessor PATCO, for an answer to the usefulness of strikes. The issues that are most troubling to today's ATC workforce are nearly identical to those that the ATC workforce faced in 1981.

An (perhaps overly long), essay on the subject: http://etext.virginia.edu/journals/EH/EH37/Pels.html

[Sickbag]

Why not? Is there no other way to leverage the workforce in negotiations?

Well like you want this debate to be balanced and reasonable, thats the same with labour negotiations, as verbal says collectivisation is the way to acheive equality in leverage, no one would deny that there are union excesses of power, but in relation to what corparations have done and still do when they think no one is looking i.e. in the un unionised third world and in countries with repressive regimes.Union excess are miniscle in comparison , thats not to say they shouldn't be condemmed and stopped but these events tend to be highlighted by the media who's owners on the whole have agendas that are very anti labour. Most unions in the UK are pretty right wing these days and continually support and fund the labour party who 'bites the hand that feeds it" as someone recently said.

[IntheShade]

I'm really starting to sense a trend here... can anyone share with me POSITIVE things unions do in this day & age?

]

I guess you don't know about chicken sandwiches.

[Ed]

I was never in a union until I took my teaching gig, and was never for them. I thought they advocated laziness. I still think that many of them do.

However, now being part of a collective bargaining unit, and also spending time on the negotiating team, I can give you some insight.

Often, management will change the rules of play without informing the workforce.....perhaps by altering benefits, workload, etc....this is often done just by altering an on-line policy. How many of you check the company policies every day? Sometimes it is done nefariously, sometimes not. The best intentions are sometimes lost 5 years down the road when personnel change and interpretations change. A collective bargaining unit, and collective agreement, solidifies the working conditions, for at least the duration of the contract. Once you start negotiating a contract, you see the real colours of management, and it ain't pretty. However, in large organizations, I often question the motives of the workers as well.

People seem to think union means some big Hoffa style thing...it can be, but not all are like that. Any group of employees can form a collective, and (at least in Canada), when they hit a certain size, must be recognized by management. Negotiations can be tricky, because your membership (individually) have pet clauses they want in, and neither management nor workers ever get what they want fully.

If management weren't such tossers then unions would not be needed. We didn't want a union here, but the morons in charge basically gave us no choice. It is a pain in the ass to negotiate, and nobody likes to do it (except professional union people, who are fuel to the fire if you ask me).

Anyway, I still don't like unions, despite being in one and being a negotiator. I don't like management either. Come to think of it, I don't like many people at all....

Ed

[Verbal]

Come to think of it, I don't like many people at all....

You totally rock, Ed.

[supersean]

Lets strike in the middle of a recession in an industry hanging on by a string... great job IAMAW!

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/188618.asp