Operation Moshtarak:The new begining...

[Sickbag]

We kill civilians
Kahzi seeks to rig the election..

...hang on i think we've been here before.

[Verbal]

No one asked you what you think.

[Sickbag]

They don't have to now.

[David Hilditch]

We kill civilians
Kahzi seeks to rig the election..

...hang on i think we've been here before.

Not sure if there's a lot to add to earlier threads on Afghanistan. There may be some sound tactical reasons to this operation, but it is strategically ill-conceived. I suspect we may be carrying out the operation more for domestic audiences in the west.

Something little commented on, and perhaps reflecting continuing poor levels of Western understanding about Afghanistan, is that this operation has been given a Dari name while taking place in a predominantly Pashtun region. Very poor thinking.

[Verbal]

General question, then. Is a functioning democracy realistically attainable in Afghanistan, or anywhere in the region for that matter? For the democratic process to work, a society needs a tradition of civil discourse. You can debate the issues with your opponent, then respectfully go your separate ways. What doesn't work in a democracy is when you set off a bomb in your opponent's local cafe just because he disagrees with you.

And make no mistake, given the inability of the U.S. government to accomplish anything at all, I am not suggesting it as a model for others to follow. The partisan bickering and foot-dragging is bad enough. The infighting that goes on within each party compounds things. Witness how the Democrats pissed away their supermajority in the Senate. Granted, they are Democrats, which means they are inately prone to f*ck up, but still....

Anyway, as you were.

[Sickbag]

What doesn't work in a democracy is when you set off a bomb in your opponent's local cafe just because he disagrees with you.

Well seeing how the democratic west has being doing a more high-tech version of precisely this in the region for starters, so maybe the Taliban, et al are just emulating the worst features of western democracies.

[flyboy2548m]

General question, then. Is a functioning democracy realistically attainable in Afghanistan, or anywhere in the region for that matter?

No.

[Verbal]

Well seeing how the democratic west has being doing a more high-tech version of precisely this in the region for starters, so maybe the Taliban, et al are just emulating the worst features of western democracies.

No one gave you permission to reply.

[Sickbag]

No one gave you permission to reply.

I am the thread starter, you are a contributor.

I outrank you.

[Verbal]

Dammit.

[David Hilditch]

General question, then. Is a functioning democracy realistically attainable in Afghanistan, or anywhere in the region for that matter?

I don't think this question is any longer relevant. Western policy-making long ago gave up on establishing/exporting anything close to what we understand by 'democracy' (and in Iraq as well).

[Verbal]

I see. So we've basically reverted to firefighting mode.

[Ancient Mariner]

I see. So we've basically reverted to firefighting mode.

Not as much fighting as feeding the fire.........with gasoline.
Per

[David Hilditch]

I see. So we've basically reverted to firefighting mode.

Reverted ? I thought we were originally about freedom, democracy and liberty, setting an example, building up civil society, supporting the rule of law etc. etc., and all that guff, and when that failed, we then turned to mere firefighting.....

I am not even sure it is wholly about firefighting now, other than at a tactical level. Isn't it about arranging for ourselves a supposedly honorable withdrawal in the 18-24 month timetable we have already published to the world and persuading Western electorates that this is so ? Flying the Afghan flag over Marjah ? ROFL. It will be very hard to reintegrate Talebanis into civilian life and to offer them jobs (what kind of jobs ?). There is an attempt under way to shift power towards tribal elders (or at least those who have been vetted - by us, by Karzai, who knows, it depends anyway.....) who have deep roots. Yet those deep roots are deep largely because they do not recognize the remit of central government in Kabul and they often have Talebani sympathies anyway. Remember that Karzai himself is a Pashtun from Kandahar (the Taleban's spiritual home) and has had (maybe still has) substantial sympathies with them. Also, "installing" a government is hardly a government chosen by the local people.