Near Total Crosswind Disasters

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3WE
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Near Total Crosswind Disasters

Postby 3WE » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:24 pm

Probably no question here- Evan's Rudder Reversal deal impressed me as do so many of those other crosswind videos.

It seems you guys have some seriously tough landing gear, and maybe given that my very limited flying experience is all 172 where the wing and several pounds of gas are up high...I find it more amazing than it really is that airliners don't tip to one side and drag their wing tips.

I also am impressed at the seeming dichotomy...Some landings seem to be textbook where the crab is kicked out at the perfect time with a near-perfect-ever-so-slight-upwind wing dip to a straight touchdown...And then we have all of the nasty sideways stuff...

Sometimes it seems like it's crab all the way THROUGH touch down...

Sometimes it seems almost like over correction.

And I will acknowledge that I have seen those very nice touchdowns, and then several seconds until the plane starts swerving which is probably in response to genuine weathervaning.
What Flyboy will post in response: Yes. and/or What?
Please share a story of doing (or watching) some spectacular sideways travel, from the airplane, if you have one.
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3WE
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Re: Near Total Crosswind Disasters

Postby 3WE » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:46 pm

...And wow, I was just reminded of how to handle a steady-state crosswind versus one with wind gusts.

I can't deny that wind varies in it's gustiness, and would concur that MSFS offers a most unique experience of a steady state crosswind.
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3WE
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Re: Near Total Crosswind Disasters

Postby 3WE » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:15 pm

For the sake of relevance to our 2 members who don't participate there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roS6oFjCDhc

There indeed appears to be a remarkable swerve to the left after a relatively good looking touchdown.

But, I do not_feel the need to say, "OMG, did they died?",
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3WE
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Re: Near Total Crosswind Disasters

Postby 3WE » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:10 pm

But, I do not_feel the need to say, "OMG, did they died?"...
...nor to render overly-bold advice on their rudder technique...even when I was practiced up the 172M involved some measured 'reversals'.
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Re: Near Total Crosswind Disasters

Postby flyboy2548m » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:34 am

Ah yes, the good old crosswind...

Sometimes crews don't give it enough respect, and sometimes it's almost like they're too afraid of it. The fear then translates into excessive zealousness, both with respect to directional control and with respect to getting the airplane onto the runway in a manner more decisive than necessary. The video (such as it is) appears to depict an example of the latter. It looks as though the crew forced the airplane on before it was ready, hence the bounce, hence the subsequent directional destabilization.

Now, let's talk about the whole crab/de-crab question. Some pilots are taught (erroneously, in my opinion) that ANY amount of crab at touchdown will cause excessive side load on the gear, and everyone will did died. I tend to disagree (as does Airbus). Sometimes it's better to accept a slight crab, but with an otherwise stable touchdown than try to make zero crab some kind of a hill to die on that has to be achieved at all costs.

The video seems to also show quite a bit of rudder movement long before touchdown. It's possible that movement is the result of yaw damper inputs, but I find that doubtful. Why they were playing with the rudder that high up, I can't say.

In my opinion, the key to dealing with gusty winds like that is to do...as little as possible. Excessive control inputs generally only make things worse. If we're rocking and rolling, but the flightpath is more or less stable, I'll live with it. I'm not going to try to counteract every gust and every bump of turbulence. I'll ride through it making the smallest corrections possible. Somewhere between 20' and 10', I'll start dipping the wing and applying the rudder, being careful to apply both of those inputs SMOOTHLY. No yanking the wing down and no stabbing the rudder. This allows using the airplane's own stability as an ally. The airplane is already fighting the gusts, you don't want it to fight your hamfisted inputs, too. If I end up touching down still a tad crabbed, that's life. I will continue straightening the nose out in the rollout.
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Not_Karl
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Re: Near Total Crosswind Disasters

Postby Not_Karl » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:36 am

I was expecting a near/total air disaster, 737 style. Was deeply disappointed.
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3WE
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Re: Near Total Crosswind Disasters

Postby 3WE » Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:24 pm

Please note: You should not move from right to left rudder inputs (or vice versa) without pausing at neutral.
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Not_Karl
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Re: Near Total Crosswind Disasters

Postby Not_Karl » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:27 pm

Please note: You should not move from right to left rudder inputs (or vice versa) without pausing at neutral.
Concur. It's a miracle that the whole cheap-composite-tail didn't snap off.
Junior Janitor, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Environmental Poisoning Assurance department.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
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ocelot
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Re: Near Total Crosswind Disasters

Postby ocelot » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:09 am

Years ago I was flying into DEN on UA when we picked up unexpected gusty 30-knot crosswinds on short final. This was not exactly smooth (not really possible) but overall it was very well done, with the bank angle neatly tracking the windspeed and certainly none of this swerving crap. I wanted to say something nice to the pilot afterwards, but maybe unsurprisingly they left the cockpit buttoned up while everyone got off.

also I think I've said this before here. oops


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