Scanner

[Putt4Par]

Can a scanner really affect communications between pilot and ATC? I am flying this Sunday and I want to take my scanner.

[Dmmoore]

Can a scanner really affect communications between pilot and ATC? I am flying this Sunday and I want to take my scanner.

I'll take this one only because it requires a more technical answer than a pilot may feel comfortable answering.

First and foremost is the airlines own policy. Some will allow receivers, some will not. Some will allow receivers to be used above 10,000 feet, some will not allow them at any time.

Here's why. All receivers use an oscillator as a part of the signal processing unit. The oscillator emits RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) while in operation. The RFI has the potential to interfere with many of the aircraft systems specifically compass and navigation signals to the cockpit from receivers and antenna inputs installed around the aircraft.

Modern aircraft (B-777, A-320 series and A330) would not be affected by the output of an oscillator if the electrical systems are maintained as they were when they left the factory. Older aircraft are more susceptible to this type of interference.

An airline that has a mix of older and newer aircraft may chose to limit the use of receivers on all aircraft rather than have the cabin staff deal with different requirements for each aircraft type.

In general, you can get away with using your hand held scanner above 10,000 feet as long as you are using an ear plug and not being obvious about what you're doing.

The risk of a receiver causing interference is very low however, turn it off below 10,000 feet to insure the risk from your activity is zero.

[Putt4Par]

Don,
Thanks for the answer.
P4P

[RadarContactLost]

Hey Don, I would have thought that newer aircraft would be more susceptible to this sort of interference. In the last gig I saw a microwave, laptop, couple of dvd players and who knows how many walkman fired up without any problems. I figured with a 28 volt dc 115 ac system whatever milliwatt that leaked out would be overpowered by the ship's systems. Where as with the newer chip driven stuff where maintenance has to ground themselves before going into E&E to prevent the static charge from frying stuff, it would seem every little bit matters. Comment?

[Dmmoore]

Hey Don, I would have thought that newer aircraft would be more susceptible to this sort of interference. In the last gig I saw a microwave, laptop, couple of dvd players and who knows how many walkman fired up without any problems. I figured with a 28 volt dc 115 ac system whatever milliwatt that leaked out would be overpowered by the ship's systems. Where as with the newer chip driven stuff where maintenance has to ground themselves before going into E&E to prevent the static charge from frying stuff, it would seem every little bit matters. Comment?

The older aircraft use analog systems that poorly shielded from stray EMI. While it does take more EMF to affect most analog systems, there are places where a small amount of EMI can overpower the signal received through poorly shielded antenna cables or flux gate cabling.

New aircraft are much better shielded through out the aircraft. All digital signals are transmitted through double shielded cables rejecting up to 95% of all EMI.

The static discharge potential for damage to solid state units is real but over stated to some degree. It should be noted that it is far more critical for a tech working at a bench on an open box to maintain static discharge control than for the technician in the aircraft. However both should maintain a level of control and concern.

[RadarContactLost]

Thanks Don.

[3WE]

Hang on a second everyone.

I don't fly zillions of different airlines, but I THOUGHT that listening to radios or operating GPS receivers was pretty much verboten on essentially every US airline. (Please note use of wiggle words).

This subject has come up many times over the years, and yeah, there's a consensus that it's very unlikely to affect anything, though it's ALWAYS mentioned that the radios can emit signals, and that maybe you want your ILS receivers operating in an awfully pure electromagnetic environment.

Maybe I'm wrong, but would someone like to list an airline or two that WILL let you listen to your scanner or fire up a GPS....heck, I might make an effor to ride with them when I can!

SWA did not restrict GPS a few years back, but within the last year thier magazine says "no".

I also thought radio interference caused 777's to not power up on short final

[flyingspark]

A couple of years ago i was on a Continental Airlines flight from Newark to Toronto. A young couple in the row across the aisle had what looked like a gps reciever stuck on the window and hooked up to a laptop. The cabin crew were aware of it but not at all bothered.

[Dmmoore]

I don't know of one either but their may be one out there. If there is, it will be above 10,000 feet, If you don't make a big deal out of it, you can get away with using one. If questioned about the device, simply tell the truth. If asked to turn the unit off, do so, put it away and leave it there. You can get away with a lot by playing dumb but you can not avoid compliance with a direct instruction from the a crew member.

[3WE]

Back in the 70's & 80's there was an ad in aviation magazines for tiny aviation-band receiver that looked like a pen, and the ad read that it was designed to NOT look like a radio receiver...Of course you had to wear an earphone to listen.....

And, let's be clear- this was over 20 years ago- it WASN'T a minuature MP3 player.....I had to wonder how "sneaky" it would be when your pen had an earphone jack and your are listening in....."Yes, madam stewardess, I'm listening to my pen....it has a tiny tiny tiny cassette tape inside and is NOT a radio receiver"........."I'm sorry sir, the only thing that will fit in something that tiny is a radio receiver" ?????

I once cheated and listened in all the way to us being told to taxi into takeoff position......transmissions from our aircraft were incredibly strong andd, garbled/distorted while the tower was incredibly quiet (not a surprise huh?)....anyway, I wonder if it's truly possible to hear both sides of the conversation with any reasonable quality from a "simple aircraft-band reciever".

As I think further- I'm guessing that it won't be too long until we get full Internet capability while on board, and then couple that with those websites that monitor ATC frequencies???????

[AndyToop]

As I think further- I'm guessing that it won't be too long until we get full Internet capability while on board, and then couple that with those websites that monitor ATC frequencies???????

Inflight cell phone & WiFi Broadband are well on there way. As it mentions, Boeing had a network (not sure about broadband) access already, but it folded last year as there wasn't sufficient demand for the service.

[el]

Inflight cell phone & WiFi Broadband are well on there way. As it mentions, Boeing had a network (not sure about broadband) access already, but it folded last year as there wasn't sufficient demand for the service.

IIRC Panasonic is busy developing a system similar to Boeings Connexion.