Oil

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Oil

Postby IntheShade » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:33 pm

Mr. Hilton,

Have you ever used LPS-3 or do you tend to stick to the heavier oils?
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Re: Oil

Postby Dmmoore » Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:07 pm

Charles,
I hesitate to ask but, LPS3 is a rather special purpose oil. May I inquire as to the purpose you have in mind for the oil? Many oils are available for special purpose uses. Some are better than LPS3 for specific uses.
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Re: Oil

Postby Robert Hilton » Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:55 pm

Mr. Hilton,

Have you ever used LPS-3 or do you tend to stick to the heavier oils?
In my time I have used OX38, OX28, OX27, OX26, OM11 and OM13.
The OM11 and OM13 were generally only used for inhibiting purposes as they were no longer acceptable for high altitude uses, apart from that the synthetics were superior in all respects to the mineral based oils.
To get back to your question, WD40 is also a useful oil but then so are OM15 and PX24, using the OM15 first to ease the moving parts and the WD40 for lubrication and protection

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Re: Oil

Postby IntheShade » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:08 pm

Charles,
I hesitate to ask but, LPS3 is a rather special purpose oil. May I inquire as to the purpose you have in mind for the oil? Many oils are available for special purpose uses. Some are better than LPS3 for specific uses.
I have had the need for a penetrating oil recently and in doing so have been refered to PB Blaster.

Upon finding a can of it I was turned off by both the "As Seen On TV" banner, the word "Blaster" and the testimonial on the side of the can that PB Blaster can "melt styrofoam cups".

I have used LPS3 many times and have been quite happy with it, so I suppose my real question is What is your thoughts of PB Blaster?
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Re: Oil

Postby Robert Hilton » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:12 pm

Charles,
I hesitate to ask but, LPS3 is a rather special purpose oil. May I inquire as to the purpose you have in mind for the oil? Many oils are available for special purpose uses. Some are better than LPS3 for specific uses.
I have had the need for a penetrating oil recently and in doing so have been refered to PB Blaster.

Upon finding a can of it I was turned off by both the "As Seen On TV" banner, the word "Blaster" and the testimonial on the side of the can that PB Blaster can "melt styrofoam cups".

I have used LPS3 many times and have been quite happy with it, so I suppose my real question is What is your thoughts of PB Blaster?
A mineral hydraulic oil has very good penetration properties, it's what I use for "difficult" litlle items. Once the offending item has loosened it is advisable to lubricate it with a light oil.

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Re: Oil

Postby IntheShade » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:31 pm

Charles,
I hesitate to ask but, LPS3 is a rather special purpose oil. May I inquire as to the purpose you have in mind for the oil? Many oils are available for special purpose uses. Some are better than LPS3 for specific uses.
I have had the need for a penetrating oil recently and in doing so have been refered to PB Blaster.

Upon finding a can of it I was turned off by both the "As Seen On TV" banner, the word "Blaster" and the testimonial on the side of the can that PB Blaster can "melt styrofoam cups".

I have used LPS3 many times and have been quite happy with it, so I suppose my real question is What is your thoughts of PB Blaster?
A mineral hydraulic oil has very good penetration properties, it's what I use for "difficult" litlle items. Once the offending item has loosened it is advisable to lubricate it with a light oil.
Is there any other "expert" in the general area?

Mr. Hilton has missed the question.

I was asking for thoughts on LPS-3 and PB Blaster (as seen on TV).
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Re: Oil

Postby PurduePilot » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:34 pm

Charles,
I hesitate to ask but, LPS3 is a rather special purpose oil. May I inquire as to the purpose you have in mind for the oil? Many oils are available for special purpose uses. Some are better than LPS3 for specific uses.
I have had the need for a penetrating oil recently and in doing so have been refered to PB Blaster.

Upon finding a can of it I was turned off by both the "As Seen On TV" banner, the word "Blaster" and the testimonial on the side of the can that PB Blaster can "melt styrofoam cups".

I have used LPS3 many times and have been quite happy with it, so I suppose my real question is What is your thoughts of PB Blaster?
I've used PB Blaster many times on stubborn rusty suspension bolts and whatnot. Just give them a good soaking and wait a little while and they loosen up so much easier!

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Re: Oil

Postby IntheShade » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:52 pm

Charles,
I hesitate to ask but, LPS3 is a rather special purpose oil. May I inquire as to the purpose you have in mind for the oil? Many oils are available for special purpose uses. Some are better than LPS3 for specific uses.
I have had the need for a penetrating oil recently and in doing so have been refered to PB Blaster.

Upon finding a can of it I was turned off by both the "As Seen On TV" banner, the word "Blaster" and the testimonial on the side of the can that PB Blaster can "melt styrofoam cups".

I have used LPS3 many times and have been quite happy with it, so I suppose my real question is What is your thoughts of PB Blaster?
I've used PB Blaster many times on stubborn rusty suspension bolts and whatnot. Just give them a good soaking and wait a little while and they loosen up so much easier!
And several years from now will the area you used it on be a rust hole full of corrosion?
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Re: Oil

Postby GlennAB1 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:37 pm

Charles,
I hesitate to ask but, LPS3 is a rather special purpose oil. May I inquire as to the purpose you have in mind for the oil? Many oils are available for special purpose uses. Some are better than LPS3 for specific uses.
I have had the need for a penetrating oil recently and in doing so have been refered to PB Blaster.

Upon finding a can of it I was turned off by both the "As Seen On TV" banner, the word "Blaster" and the testimonial on the side of the can that PB Blaster can "melt styrofoam cups".

I have used LPS3 many times and have been quite happy with it, so I suppose my real question is What is your thoughts of PB Blaster?
Charles, as I recall, LPS-1 is the penetrant, LPS-3 is a corrosion inhibitor.........

I've used PB Blaster in my garage for several years, it's pretty good stuff and no sign of it "causing corrosion."
you still have to find a crew willing to fly this "barely airworthy" heap
no such thing as "barely airworthy" it's either Airworthy or Not
100% incorrect Ever hear of Ferry Permit? issued for Non airworthy aircraft
LOL

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Re: Oil

Postby Robert Hilton » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:32 pm

Is there any other "expert" in the general area?

Mr. Hilton has missed the question.

I was asking for thoughts on LPS-3 and PB Blaster (as seen on TV).
My thoughts are go with what you find best.
I've used an awful lot of pentrants and lubricants over the years and most of the `wonder products` are snake oil in my opinion. The only real successful jack of all trades I´ve found is and remains WD40. If you´re happy with LPS 3 or PB Blaster then go with that.
By the way, what oil do you use in your El Camino? a full synthetic or a semi?

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Re: Oil

Postby IntheShade » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:07 am

Is there any other "expert" in the general area?

Mr. Hilton has missed the question.

I was asking for thoughts on LPS-3 and PB Blaster (as seen on TV).
My thoughts are go with what you find best.
Brilliant. I was asking in the mechanics Forum for a Professional opinion.
I've used an awful lot of pentrants and lubricants over the years and most of the `wonder products` are snake oil in my opinion. The only real successful jack of all trades I´ve found is and remains WD40.
Brilliant.
If you´re happy with LPS 3 or PB Blaster then go with that.
By the way, what oil do you use in your El Camino? a full synthetic or a semi?
I use Quaker State 10W-30 which would be a semi.
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Re: Oil

Postby GlennAB1 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:07 am

Is there any other "expert" in the general area?

Mr. Hilton has missed the question.

I was asking for thoughts on LPS-3 and PB Blaster (as seen on TV).
My thoughts are go with what you find best.
Brilliant. I was asking in the mechanics Forum for a Professional opinion.
I've used an awful lot of pentrants and lubricants over the years and most of the `wonder products` are snake oil in my opinion. The only real successful jack of all trades I´ve found is and remains WD40.
Brilliant.
If you´re happy with LPS 3 or PB Blaster then go with that.
By the way, what oil do you use in your El Camino? a full synthetic or a semi?
I use Quaker State 10W-30 which would be a semi.
Quaker Sludge........ sorry to hear that.
you still have to find a crew willing to fly this "barely airworthy" heap
no such thing as "barely airworthy" it's either Airworthy or Not
100% incorrect Ever hear of Ferry Permit? issued for Non airworthy aircraft
LOL

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Re: Oil

Postby IntheShade » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:26 am


Quaker Sludge........ sorry to hear that.
And once again you showcase your knowledge.

All name brand oils come from the same barrel.

The real difference today is in the filtration systems used on the car and how long one goes between oil changes.

If you get sludge it's probably because you're cheap and don't change your oil often enough.

Where your real stroke of genius comes into play is when instead of recognizing that your cheapness is ruining your engine you simply blame the oil brand.

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Re: Oil

Postby GlennAB1 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:18 am


Quaker Sludge........ sorry to hear that.
And once again you showcase your knowledge.

All name brand oils come from the same barrel.

The real difference today is in the filtration systems used on the car and how long one goes between oil changes.

If you get sludge it's probably because you're cheap and don't change your oil often enough.

Where your real stroke of genius comes into play is when instead of recognizing that your cheapness is ruining your engine you simply blame the oil brand.

BRILLIANT Glenn!!
LOL

Sorry Charlie, that's not what I was taught by a very knowledgeable A&P engine instructor (also a DME).
As I recall, Quaker State, and many others are Pennsylvania crude, all Pennsylvania crude are paraffin (wax) based oils.......... and that's primarily where the sludge comes from. Oil from Ashland, (Valvoline for one) is called ashless dispersant and isn't paraffin based.
you still have to find a crew willing to fly this "barely airworthy" heap
no such thing as "barely airworthy" it's either Airworthy or Not
100% incorrect Ever hear of Ferry Permit? issued for Non airworthy aircraft
LOL

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Re: Oil

Postby IntheShade » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:35 am


Quaker Sludge........ sorry to hear that.
And once again you showcase your knowledge.

All name brand oils come from the same barrel.

The real difference today is in the filtration systems used on the car and how long one goes between oil changes.

If you get sludge it's probably because you're cheap and don't change your oil often enough.

Where your real stroke of genius comes into play is when instead of recognizing that your cheapness is ruining your engine you simply blame the oil brand.

BRILLIANT Glenn!!
LOL

Sorry Charlie, that's not what I was taught by a very knowledgeable A&P engine instructor (also a DME).
As I recall, Quaker State, and many others are Pennsylvania crude, all Pennsylvania crude are paraffin (wax) based oils.......... and that's primarily where the sludge comes from. Oil from Ashland, (Valvoline for one) is called ashless dispersant and isn't paraffin based.
SO let me get this straight.

In your mind all Quaker State oil that comes in a plastic bottle has oil in it that could only come from Pennsylvania?

I think I am starting to understand where all your misconceptions come from--the "very knowledgeable A&P engine instructor (also a DME)".

I can assure you of this--the oil from Pennzoil, Quaker State, Texxaco, ect... all come from the same batch and the only difference are the trade additives which are mixed in (and even many of these are the same anymore).

How do I know this? The guy in the hangar next to me owns the oil company here in Fort Worth that bottles it into the trade name brand bottles/cases that are sent out to the retailers. I've even been in the factories.

JUST SO YOU UNDERSTAND GLENN, EACH CITY HAS A COMPANY LIKE THIS SO OIL CAN BE SHIPPED IN BATCHES THEN INDIVIDUALLY BOTTLED MUCH LIKE COLA AND BEER. THEY DON"T SHIP AROUND THE INDIVIDUAL BOTTLES. AS SUCH THE QUAKER STATE HERE IS TEXAS DERIVED OIL.
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Re: Oil

Postby Robert Hilton » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:19 am

Brilliant.
Thankyou Charles, that is indeed high praise coming from you.

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Re: Oil

Postby GlennAB1 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:00 pm


Quaker Sludge........ sorry to hear that.
And once again you showcase your knowledge.

All name brand oils come from the same barrel.

The real difference today is in the filtration systems used on the car and how long one goes between oil changes.

If you get sludge it's probably because you're cheap and don't change your oil often enough.

Where your real stroke of genius comes into play is when instead of recognizing that your cheapness is ruining your engine you simply blame the oil brand.

BRILLIANT Glenn!!
Thanks for the insider info Charles........ I've been using AMSoil for several years now and am very happy.
you still have to find a crew willing to fly this "barely airworthy" heap
no such thing as "barely airworthy" it's either Airworthy or Not
100% incorrect Ever hear of Ferry Permit? issued for Non airworthy aircraft
LOL

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Re: Oil

Postby Dmmoore » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:15 pm

Back to penetrating oil.
LPS-1 is a better penetrating oil than LPS-3. WD-40 works well on anything that does not contain brass. WD-40 causes brass to gall and / or bind. Drill into a brass bar using WD-40 as a lube and the drill will bind.
I have never used "PB Blaster" so I have no comment.
The key is the ability to get enough oil on the seized fastener to allow penetration. I usually use LPS-1 applied liberally several times over 24 hours. If I'm in a hurry, I'll use a torch to warm the fastener. If it remains frozen, I add LPS-1 as the fastener cools. The cooling fastener draws the the oil into the frozen area.
A comment on lubricating oils.
When Glenn and I went through A&P school, Glenn's statement was correct. I was told the same thing. Paraffin based oils (so called Pennsylvania crude) was an excellent oil, very stable but was an ash producing oil requiring frequent oil changes. The so called Texas or Mid-continent crude is sulphur based. Sulphur based oils are less stable but are much better lubricating at higher temperatures than paraffin based oil and are ash-less. Ash-less oil allowed engines in frequent use to extend oil change intervals by 50%. If the type of engine operation included extended periods of inactivity or if the engine was not allowed to reach and maintain operating temperating temperatures regularily, water condensing in the pan could combine with free sulphur atoms in the oil, forming H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid) which could damage the engine.
Current day mineral oils are all sulphur based with modifiers to prevent acid formation and additives to stabilize viscosity. These additives become less effective as the oil is used.
While Charles is correct about mineral oils being made from the same base stock, each oil refiner adds it's own additive package. These additives are trade marked and in some cases patented. Your friend may package different minor brands of oil but major brands such as Chevron and Mobile are usually packaged by the refiner. Additionally I doubt he packages different oils from the same mixed (base + additives) oil without an agreement between the oil brands.
When using natural oils in severe conditions (by definition, all engines in automobiles operate in extreme or severe conditions) replacing oil at 3000 - 4500 mile intervals insures the oil maintains it's full lubricating property.
In my personal automobiles I use Mobile 1, a full synthetic type IV oil that I replace at 10000 mile or one year intervals.
I have never had an auto engine go less than 300,000 miles using the above procedures.
I know many forum members have had success using longer periods between changes. If you change vehicles on a regular basis, with less than 150000 miles, oil change at factory recommended intervals won't hurt. If however you commute about 50000 miles per year (as I did for 15 years), changing the oil at 3000 - 4500 mile intervals makes sense.
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Re: Oil

Postby Sickbag » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:59 pm

If however you commute about 50000 miles per year (as I did for 15 years), changing the oil at 3000 - 4500 mile intervals makes sense.
But perhaps not as much as moving closer to your job...
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Re: Oil

Postby tds » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:40 pm

If however you commute about 50000 miles per year (as I did for 15 years), changing the oil at 3000 - 4500 mile intervals makes sense.
But perhaps not as much as moving closer to your job...
Or buying an airplane!

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Re: Oil

Postby Dmmoore » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:58 pm

If however you commute about 50000 miles per year (as I did for 15 years), changing the oil at 3000 - 4500 mile intervals makes sense.
But perhaps not as much as moving closer to your job...
My original job assignment was at PMD, 10 miles from the home I purchased for USD $145,000. When that assignment terminated, I was offered an assignment at LAX or MEM. The family chose LAX. I attempted to purchase a home within a 20 mile radius of LAX but was unable to qualify for the USD $500,000 mortgage required to purchase a home half the size of the one I owned. Commuting was the only reasonable option.

After all was said and done, I saved almost USD $250,00 by commuting, maintaining, servicing, wearing out and replacing three cars than by paying almost USD $3,000 per month mortgage of a home closer to work.
Or buying an airplane!
Owned one. Considered it, not practical. Time saved was minimal, cost was 3X that of driving.
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Re: Oil

Postby tds » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:04 pm

Owned one. Considered it, not practical. Time saved was minimal, cost was 3X that of driving.
Hey, at least you could land then taxi all the way to the 'office'. :D

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Re: Oil

Postby GerryW » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:47 pm

... If the type of engine operation included extended periods of inactivity or if the engine was not allowed to reach and maintain operating temperating temperatures regularily, water condensing in the pan could combine with free sulphur atoms in the oil, forming H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid) which could damage the engine.
Current day mineral oils are all sulphur based with modifiers to prevent acid formation and additives to stabilize viscosity. These additives become less effective as the oil is used.
................................................................When using natural oils in severe conditions (by definition, all engines in automobiles operate in extreme or severe conditions) replacing oil at 3000 - 4500 mile intervals insures the oil maintains it's full lubricating property.
In my personal automobiles I use Mobile 1, a full synthetic type IV oil that I replace at 10000 mile or one year intervals.
I have never had an auto engine go less than 300,000 miles using the above procedures.
I know many forum members have had success using longer periods between changes. If you change vehicles on a regular basis, with less than 150000 miles, oil change at factory recommended intervals won't hurt. If however you commute about 50000 miles per year (as I did for 15 years), changing the oil at 3000 - 4500 mile intervals makes sense.
With some VAG engines (Volkswagen, Audi,etc) you can have as option 'Longlife inspection intervals' With this feature the car electronics calculate on your driving style and mileage and time intervals the interval when you should go for an inspection and oil change. We had it on our car too (even though I didn't choose for that option) with an 1,8 l 20V turbo engine (gasoline) and we made once an interval with 20000 kms in 2 years. Then I saw in a VAG forum that more and more people had problems with engines around the 60000 - 80000 kms. Most engines were damaged beyond repair. And mostly it happened during driving on the Autobahn with an speed around 160km/h. What the specialist then found out is that all those cars where the engine 'exploded' made around 10000 kms/year. Short trips. And they found out that the special oil which was used in those 'Longlife' engines didn't like it that the engine didn't reach normal operating temperatures and thus formed this oil sludge which clogged the small oil channels in the engine and to the turbine.
Because our car had around 60000 kms when I read that and we made only 10000kms/year too, so I decided to change the oil and go back to yearly inspections and oil changes.

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Re: Oil

Postby Robert Hilton » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:25 pm

With some VAG engines (Volkswagen, Audi,etc) you can have as option 'Longlife inspection intervals' With this feature the car electronics calculate on your driving style and mileage and time intervals the interval when you should go for an inspection and oil change. We had it on our car too (even though I didn't choose for that option) with an 1,8 l 20V turbo engine (gasoline) and we made once an interval with 20000 kms in 2 years. Then I saw in a VAG forum that more and more people had problems with engines around the 60000 - 80000 kms. Most engines were damaged beyond repair. And mostly it happened during driving on the Autobahn with an speed around 160km/h. What the specialist then found out is that all those cars where the engine 'exploded' made around 10000 kms/year. Short trips. And they found out that the special oil which was used in those 'Longlife' engines didn't like it that the engine didn't reach normal operating temperatures and thus formed this oil sludge which clogged the small oil channels in the engine and to the turbine.
Because our car had around 60000 kms when I read that and we made only 10000kms/year too, so I decided to change the oil and go back to yearly inspections and oil changes.
This is a problem we have encountered where I work. Although the trucks are running on longlife oil and being able to check the oil quality in situ (through the vehicle computer) we found we were getting excessive wear and oil use after a couple of hundred thousand km's. We have reverted to shorter intervals and have switched off the oil check facilty in all our trucks.

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Re: Oil

Postby tds » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:40 am

Valuable info on VAG lubrication, chaps, but is this really the place?


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