Air France Relentless Pull Up: Beating the dead horse...again...

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3WE
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Air France Relentless Pull Up: Beating the dead horse...again...

Postby 3WE » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:07 pm

Ok, I have only loosely been following the Evan admonition and Boeing Bobby declarations and Gabriel's and my own spam-waste-of-bytes there on the Russian-apparent-UAS crash.

But (question) have a perceived a trend that for in a lot of cases of UAS, you establish full power and a healthy climb? (Seems like Bobby and maybe Gabby and maybe Evanie said that).

Then we have the ole stall gripe where recovery was full power and establish a healthy climb.

What I'm saying here- is that this would tend to support that theory that maybe Bonin was not a total idiot, but thinking that pulling the stick back would get the plane to automatically assume a maximum performance climb with stall protection...

To me the question has always been "what in the hell was he thinking"...

I used to have a few more doubts at this theory, but if UAS was full power and climb, this supports that theory more...

/endless parlour talk
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Gabriel
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Re: Air France Relentless Pull Up: Beating the dead horse...again...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:03 am

UAS procedure was climb thrust and 5 degrees nose up. They didn't touch the thrust levers and they went for 15 degrees nose up.

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3WE
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Re: Air France Relentless Pull Up: Beating the dead horse...again...

Postby 3WE » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:47 am

...They didn't touch the thrust levers and they went for 15 degrees nose up.
Ok, never mind.

He still may have THOUGHT it would give him a managed speed, but it’s still overall tough to accept the whole event...procedurally and fundamentally.
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flyboy2548m
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Re: Air France Relentless Pull Up: Beating the dead horse...again...

Postby flyboy2548m » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:29 pm

UAS procedure was climb thrust and 5 degrees nose up. They didn't touch the thrust levers and they went for 15 degrees nose up.
Gabriel, just like I explained to your best friend over there (not that he was listening and not that you're going to), but that was NOT the procedure in this case. That memory item opens with very important words "IF SAFETY OF FLIGHT IS IMPACTED". It wasn't impacted, not at FL370.
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3WE
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Re: Air France Relentless Pull Up: Beating the dead horse...again...

Postby 3WE » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:31 pm

UAS procedure was climb thrust and 5 degrees nose up. They didn't touch the thrust levers and they went for 15 degrees nose up.
Gabriel, just like I explained to your best friend over there (not that he was listening and not that you're going to), but that was NOT the procedure in this case. That memory item opens with very important words "IF SAFETY OF FLIGHT IS IMPACTED". It wasn't impacted, not at FL370.
Thank you for this reminder. You did tell us this once...sounds not too awfully different from that idea of fly the plane first with known (or current) power settings...and run memory and printed checklists.

Ohhh the admonishment!
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Gabriel
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Re: Air France Relentless Pull Up: Beating the dead horse...again...

Postby Gabriel » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:50 am

Gabriel, just like I explained to your best friend over there (not that he was listening and not that you're going to), but that was NOT the procedure in this case. That memory item opens with very important words "IF SAFETY OF FLIGHT IS IMPACTED". It wasn't impacted, not at FL370.
I know and I do remember that. I didn't mention AP/FD/AT off either.

3WE's hypothesis was that the pilot reaction may have been in response to applying the memory items for UAS. I was explaining that the pilot's response didn't look like that at all.

You know that 3we and I are of the opinion that keeping a typical pitch and thrust for the phase of flight is safe, and that whatever you had just before the UAS event is a good starting point for what is typical for the phase of flight.

PS: I do listen you. Sometimes I may not agree, sometimes I choose not to respond. But I do listen.


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