737 Max troubles;:The latest news...

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Sickbag
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737 Max troubles;:The latest news...

Postby Sickbag » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:26 am

Amazing that the US/FAA is the last country in the world to recognise that the 737 MAX has a possible inherent design failure and is dragged kicking & screaming to put the safety of passengers & crew first, by Trump of all people.
It took about 72 hours for reality to close in on Donald Trump. One by one, the world’s regulators — led by China, swiftly followed by the EU — grounded Boeing’s 737 Max planes following two disastrous crashes. Under pressure from Mr Trump, America’s Federal Aviation Administration held out. When Canada joined, America’s isolation was almost complete. Mr Trump’s stance offers a unique example of the world spurning America’s lead on airline safety. His reversal is a “teachable moment” — to quote his predecessor, Barack Obama — on the realities of a fast-changing world.
https://www.ft.com/content/072ffe40-45d ... a37d002cd3
TRUMP: in-presidency structural break-up
within 96 months...

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3WE
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Re: 737 Max troubles;:The latest news...

Postby 3WE » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:04 pm

Most interesting times...

You hint that the USA was self-serving in being the last to ground the 737-MiniLav...

While another group gripes that the grounding was uncalled for and based only on hysteria.

Do we have pilots being really stupid?

OR

Do we have a stupid design?

OR

Is it some totally fuzzy gray mixture?

OR

Is there some strong truths ALONG with the fuzzy gray?

OR

Some light truths and some strong truths among the fuzzy gray?

OR

Should we all wait for the final reports?
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Gabriel
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Re: 737 Max troubles;:The latest news...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:12 pm

Most interesting times...

You hint that the USA was self-serving in being the last to ground the 737-MiniLav...

While another group gripes that the grounding was uncalled for and based only on hysteria.

Do we have pilots being really stupid?

OR

Do we have a stupid design?

OR

Is it some totally fuzzy gray mixture?

OR

Is there some strong truths ALONG with the fuzzy gray?

OR

Some light truths and some strong truths among the fuzzy gray?

OR

Should we all wait for the final reports?
Can I tick more than one option, like, all of them?

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3WE
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Re: 737 Max troubles;:The latest news...

Postby 3WE » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:47 pm

Stealing directly from there, but Bobbie's buddy implies that the MCAS system was "installed" with no notification...

I can't believe there was ZERO notification...UAS happens...stuff breaks and the wire from the airspeed to the noseover logic unit ought to be listed somewhere...but, could it really be "near zero" grossly quiet...again UAS happens...

Curtains? I dunno...but looking really bad for stock prices and some scapegoats.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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3WE
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FAO: Gabiee...your recent comment [i]there[/i]

Postby 3WE » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:11 pm

Do we have pilots being really stupid? OR Do we have a stupid design? OR Is it some totally fuzzy gray mixture? OR Is there some strong truths ALONG with the fuzzy gray? OR Some light truths and some strong truths among the fuzzy gray?
Can I tick more than one option, like, all of them?
You need to post here what you posted there. Your "thoughts of the last few hours" where you focused on the insidious message that maybe we have stalled and need to lower the nose...

...that subtle shift away from a stupid crew to something a reasonably competent, well-meaning crew MIGHT JUST GET DUPED into...(Yes, suddenly I'm a bit more sympathetic to the crew). :?

Still, somewhere around 1000 feet, I'm going to try to pull up...I know that you say you won't because you want to crash with roll authority...
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Gabriel
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Re: 737 Max troubles;:The latest news...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:55 pm

One user over there said, with sarcasm, that the MCAS performed its function flawlessly since after all neither plane stalled.

To which I wondered if the pilots knew that the plane did not stall, as the same false too-high AoA information that triggered the MCAS supposedly should trigger the stickshaker too. And I tried to picture a cockpit where you have just had UAS, the stickshaker is shaking, and the plane is pitching down by itself. Sure, other cues would indicate no stall (healthy attitude, plane able to maintain altitude and climb, no mushy ailerons, and a trim wheel wanting to spin by itself trimming nose-down all the time). But I can imagine that such an overload of incorrect, confusing, and even contradictory information, may overwhelm the pilots' cognitive function.

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Gabriel
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Re: 737 Max troubles;:The latest news...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:15 pm

Confirmed, both Lion AIr flights (the one previous to the crash and the crash one) had stickshaker shaking from rotation throughout most of the flight.

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3WE
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Re: 737 Max troubles;:The latest news...

Postby 3WE » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:54 pm

One user over there said, with sarcasm, that the MCAS performed its function flawlessly since after all neither plane stalled.

To which I wondered if the pilots knew that the plane did not stall, as the same false too-high AoA information that triggered the MCAS supposedly should trigger the stickshaker too. And I tried to picture a cockpit where you have just had UAS, the stickshaker is shaking, and the plane is pitching down by itself. Sure, other cues would indicate no stall (healthy attitude, plane able to maintain altitude and climb, no mushy ailerons, and a trim wheel wanting to spin by itself trimming nose-down all the time). But I can imagine that such an overload of incorrect, confusing, and even contradictory information, might, in rare-but-not-rare-enough instances overwhelm well trained, intelligent pilots cognitive function- especially since we are all the time pontificating against relentless pull ups.
Fixed?

Note: The blue font is only somewhat sarcastic.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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J
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Re: 737 Max troubles;:The latest news...

Postby J » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:45 pm

WN's CEO discusses the grounding of their 737Max fleet. While agreeing with the FAA decision he notes,

Our experience with the MAX, along with the other U.S. operators, has been phenomenal. We've operated over 40,000 flights covering almost 90,000 hours. There is a ton of data collected, which we continuously monitor. In all our analysis since our first flight in 2017, nothing has presented any flight safety concerns. It has been a superb addition to our fleet.
https://www.southwestaircommunity.com/t ... ba-p/88174

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Rabbi O'Genius
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Re: 737 Max troubles;:The latest news...

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:35 pm

A very critical article in the Seattle Times...............

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... air-crash/
......never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. – John Donne

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Rabbi O'Genius
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Re: 737 Max troubles;:The latest news...

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:20 am

and now....
The US government has ordered a review of the way Boeing's 737 Max aircraft got its licence to fly.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47633085
......never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. – John Donne


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