How Not to Land

[PurduePilot]

This is a perfect example of why you never try to "save" a landing, and never ever hesitate to go around at the first sign of trouble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1fFrEuu ... re=related

Comments say it's a spot landing competition. I say it looks like the pilot died and a passenger had to try to land it. Picking your landing spot doesn't mean you say "Hey I want to land there!" and you shove the nose down to hit that spot.

[ZeroAltitude]

I counted eight touch-downs, not counting the one of the propeller.
Did they charge him eight landing fees?

[flyboy2548m]

Porpoising, anyone?

[3WE]

My only expertise is that I've made some bad landings in my time- especially when I was a student pilot.

I don't know what that airplane feels like- Flyboy said "porpising"

....Ummm yeah, are you just giving us a vocabulary test (that does a describe the video) or are you implying that this is some "difficult-to-overcome flight characteristic"...I'm with Brad and I think there's a time to hit the coal lever and pull the nose up a bit.

I'm also with Brad in that it looks like 1) there was some active nosing-over 2) the pilod didn't seem to know what he was doing. 3) The flat attitude, nose wheel touches and repeated bounces, all suggests being fairly fast.

As to WHY? It almost looks like an early flying lesson, but I guess it could be a spot landing contest as evidenced by the excellent camera work. Given that bent props seem to happen all too often, I guess there's a problem with folks not considering a healthy, nose-high flare to be important???

[flyboy2548m]

I don't know what that airplane feels like- Flyboy said "porpising"

....Ummm yeah, are you just giving us a vocabulary test (that does a describe the video) or are you implying that this is some "difficult-to-overcome flight characteristic"...

No to both, porpoising is what happens when you start overcorrecting down low. Rod Machado had a good article about that, wish I had it in front of me.

[3WE]

No to both, porpoising is what happens when you start overcorrecting down low. Rod Machado had a good article about that, wish I had it in front of me.

Would you want to tell us some key points of the article?

I have a couple of 3-bouncers to my name (but no busted nosewheels or props). The most memorable would be landing #3 from solo #1.

So I understand that over-correcting/ out-of-phase/ PIO/ nosewheel-first bouncing is a "flight characteristic" that one needs to be aware of and be ready to "arrest" before it winds up like the video.

But is Rod implying that this is an extra nasty, extra insidious, sneaky trait that would leave even the best pilots with a busted nose wheel??

I have my "Multiman" side where I feel that I'm competent enough that I would "just" pull up and that "this would never happen to me."

Then I have my other side where most crash victims probably also felt that "this would never happen to them"

[flyboy2548m]

So I understand that over-correcting/ out-of-phase/ PIO/ nosewheel-first bouncing is a "flight characteristic" that one needs to be aware of and be ready to "arrest" before it winds up like the video.

That's correct.

But is Rod implying that this is an extra nasty, extra insidious, sneaky trait that would leave even the best pilots with a busted nose wheel??

He's not, in fact, he went on to say (as I recall) something to the effect that the possibility of porpoising is yet another reason not try and salvage a bad landing.

[PurduePilot]

I have my "Multiman" side where I feel that I'm competent enough that I would "just" pull up and that "this would never happen to me."

Then I have my other side where most crash victims probably also felt that "this would never happen to them"

I'm with you on that one, but I find it really helps in all aspects of flight to have personal limits/minimums/whatever that you WILL follow in any given situation. Personally, when I cross the threshold if I'm 10 knots fast, 50 feet too high, or not stabilized on the centerline, I put in the power and go to Vy and give it another shot. If I bounce once, I'll try to recover and settle it in for a second try. If the wheels touch the pavement twice and leave again, I go around. And then there are other criteria I have as far as weather, fuel, etc.

I like to think of the famous experiment that has become almost a cliche... If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water, it will jump out. If you put a frog in a pot of cool water and slowly heat it up, he'll stay in and eventually be boiled alive without even struggling. I think we see a lot of similar stuff with lower-time pilots: Continued VFR flight into IFR conditions, fuel starvation, getting lost, etc. If you have personal limitations that you keep in the back of your mind at all times and are proactive when things start approaching those limits, you will be a much safer pilot than if you just sit on your hands and watch as your flight eventually turns into an accident. One of my biggest personal fears when flying is that I'll become complacent and allow myself to slowly get into a bad situation. (That happened to me on my long solo cross country, but that's another story and was a good learning experience.)

[Half Bottle]

One of my biggest personal fears when flying is that I'll become complacent and allow myself to slowly get into a bad situation. (That happened to me on my long solo cross country, but that's another story and was a good learning experience.)

I'd welcome hearing more about this, if you don't mind.

[Dmmoore]

I have a hard and fast rule.
Three bounces and the throttle goes to the firewall!

[PurduePilot]

One of my biggest personal fears when flying is that I'll become complacent and allow myself to slowly get into a bad situation. (That happened to me on my long solo cross country, but that's another story and was a good learning experience.)

I'd welcome hearing more about this, if you don't mind.

Oh it's nothing major. It was back in August 2006, so some of the details are a little hazy. I was on my way from South Bend to Anderson (SBN-AID), flying along happy as a clam. Flight following with (I think) Fort Wayne Approach. Cruising at probably 5500. It started getting a little cloudy, so I dropped it down to 3500. There were some cumulus clouds developing (hot humid summer day) at my altitude, but I didn't want to go any lower until I was closer to the airport. I started having to maneuver a little bit to avoid the clouds, but I didn't think it was enough to constitute a "ceiling", and I was having fun weaving in between the clouds. The visibility was the 10-20 miles that you get on those hot summer days, but with the clouds in the way I couldn't see too far to navigate. Started getting a little uncertain of my position, and there were numerous untowered airports that got me a little confused, but I knew I was getting close so I took it down to probably 2500 or so. Approach was kind of busy and never asked if I had the airport in sight or told me to call the tower, and I wasn't really proactive about finding out where I was (didn't turn on the nav radios or anything). I finally spotted the airport about 2 miles in front of me. Definitely busted Tower's airspace. Told Approach I was canceling flight following and changing frequencies and gave tower a quick call... "92F did you say you're 2 miles north?!?" He gave me instructions and I landed uneventfully. There was only one other airplane in the pattern, so after I landed and got my taxi instructions, I apologized to tower for the late call and explained that I was a student pilot. He was nice about it and didn't chew me out or anything (you should hear the tower guys here in Lafayette when people screw up).

Anyways, it just kind of scared me how I let myself do something like that.

[equal]

holy fast approach.

[Sir Gallivant]

Since we are moving in the area of learning of the mistakes of others I will here repost my greatest mistake. And I think it qualifies under the thread title of 'How Not to Land'

It is a copy/paste of a post on AD.com:




On 10 June 1996, a C150 carrying one pilot and one passenger crashed at Virklund near Silkeborg in Denmark.
Both occupants survived with minor cuts and bruises.

History of the flight:

The flight originated from Viborg (EKVB) and the intended destination was Kolding/Vamdrup (EKVD).

In preparation for the flight the pilot inspected the aircraft and the fueltanks visually, found nothing to remark and determined the tanks to be 3/4 full, plenty fuel for the planned flight. After inspection and filing of flightplan (VFR) the pilot taxied out and made the required 5 landings before picking up the passenger (5 landings within the last 90 days were reqiured).

Take off and departure were uneventful and a southerly course was set. A couple of circuits were flown over two farms for pictures and exiting outside of Karup TMA the aircraft climbed to 2000ft.

Passing Silkeborg Langsoe (a lake) the engine started to run rough, as if starved of fuel. As this countinued to worsen a call was made to Copenhagen Information and an emergency landing field was looked for. The terrain is hilly, forrested and with numerous lakes.

Near Virklund a couple of fields were selected as possible targets, however, the first was ruled out as the altitude was still to great to ensure landing and stopping before running out onto the Silkeborg-Horsens road which was fairly busy at that time.

A turn of 180 degrees brought the aircraft towards an area of ondulating terrain with a few trees, at the far end a field with 3 - 400 meters of perfectly flat terrain.

Due to the horses in between the trees, the field at the far end became the target. Airspeed was too low, however, to reach the field and the aircraft hit the terrain 10 meters short of the field and 3 meters below, came to rest on top of the embankment at the edge of the field.

The pilot had before impact raised the nose to avoid going nose first into the ground, the bottom of the aircraft impacted with the embankment, tearing off nosegear and right main gear. The engine mount was twisted, the cowling almost came off and the windshield popped out. The struts carried the impact to the wings, rippling the skin of the wings and the aircraft was damaged beyond repair.

Conclusion:
Accident investigation revealed that the tanks were completely empty of fuel and there had been no fuel spilled at the crash site. The fuel gauge was deemed accurate. Studying the fuel slips stored with the aircraft's logbook showed that the aircraft had been fueled and subsequently flown to contain aprx. 1/4 tank full, which coincides with the fuel consumption and flying time from Viborg to the crash site.

Failure to consult the fuel slips, erronous visual inspection of the fuel tanks and disbelief in the fuel gauges led to the pilot thinking there was more fuel in the tanks than was the case.

The pilot was fined 4000 DKR (aprx. 500 US$) for failing to properly preflight the aircraft.

The passenger later stated that he wouldn't mind flying with the pilot again but he didn't care too much for the landings.

I could dig up a couple of pictures of the aircraft after the crash and I even if I didn't take the pictures I don't think I will have problems publishing them, you see, I was the stupid pilot.

[GerryW]

I could dig up a couple of pictures of the aircraft after the crash and I even if I didn't take the pictures I don't think I will have problems publishing them, you see, I was the stupid pilot.

But still you were a lucky guy!

I had an 'problem' too at the beginning of my 'aviation career'. I took on an summer sunday morning with CAVOK and enormous haze one of our Pipers PA28 for a ride. In the maintenace book was RAS (nothing to report). So I decided to check out the western part of our country where I rarely spent time. I did sightseeing and made a lot of turns. Knowing that I had to adjust the gyro every 20 to 30 minutes like I always did in our Cessnas. I didn't notice that after around 10 to 15 minutes airborne I had already a misleading 30° deviation. So I took my map, flew a heading 270° to the Belgium border, but I failed to recognize the city in the close distance, which should have been Arlon. Which is easy recognizable because of the Cathedral which can bee seen from far away. But there was no Cathedral at all, but there was a big city??? There was something wrong . To the left I couldn't recognize anything, to the south even less. To the right it was slightly better but there wasn't the city I was searching for. The panicking feeling started to show up. So I tried to calm down, made an estimation of my situation, checked what I have for possiblities, and reassured myself that in no way I am flying close to another airport. Then I checked my 'whiskyglass' on the counter and compared with the gyro, which at that time showed almost 40° difference to the compass. I then knew what went wrong, and I knew I was close to a French city close to the Belgium border. So I then dialed in a second VOR to check precise my situation and I made a 180 to get to 'my sandbox' the region where I don't need a map, because I know every house there.

The Problem is when the Panic attacks, the brain is somehow blocked. But when I saw, the airplane is flying, I had enough fuel on board, I checked my possibilities. I still heard Luxembourg Tower, so I could ask for a QDM. Then I calmed down. This was a lesson learned. Never without a map, always scan the instruments, and not only every 20 to 30 minutes for the gyro...

[Ramp Pilot]

I've had a couple guys land and let things deteriorate in this direction. Grabbed control both times...after the second bounce. Most often because they aren't holding the nose off enough, and after the first bounce fail to correct by holding the nose up and allowing the aircraft to slow down, or by pulling power off too quickly.

[Lomcevak]

Thanks for sharing your experiences in an effort to help others.

[equal]

Since we are moving in the area of learning of the mistakes of others I will here repost my greatest mistake. And I think it qualifies under the thread title of 'How Not to Land'

wow, great post, i really appreciate your story!

[Dmmoore]

Since we are "Teaching" others from our mistakes we survived -

Preliminary info:
The LA area is well known for smog decreasing visibility as well as mucking up the place. In the spring, the weather report becomes a boring "Late night and early morning low clouds and fog along the coast". With the low clouds comes an inversion layer that compresses the smog into a layer of rather dense haze that can reduce visibilities to a mile or so immediately after the clouds burn off. During the day, the inversion layer raises from 2,500 to 5,000 feet and higher by late afternoon. Visibilities will be between 3 and 5 miles.

My first "supervised" cross country was a flight from Brackett Field (POM) La Verne, California but adjacent to Pomona, to Long Beach (LGB). We planned the trip for a noon departure. The morning crud usually burned off by 9 - 10 o'clock so a noon departure would give a couple of hours for the inversion layer to thin out.

In my mind the trip was an easy 35 minute flight from VOR to VOR both of which are co located with the airport. How much easier could it be? The fact that LGB is a very busy airport plus the Mac Donnell Douglas plant cranking out DC-8 and DC-9 jets on the North side of the field didn't bother me.

My instructor looked over my flight plan and signed it off.

After preflighting the 172, I took off into the smog and climbed to 4,500 feet a VFR altitude above the inversion where the air is clear and clean. We didn't have ATIS in those days so I dialed up LGB tower and listened in to get "THE NUMBERS" and the feel of the traffic flow. Over Disneyland I called; "Long Beach Tower, Cessna 5439A Disneyland, with the numbers landing, for the South side."

"Cessna 5439A with the numbers, continue inbound for the left, report the green tank."

"39A Rodger, Report the green tank."

A few minutes later I saw the green tank (you couldn't miss the thing, it was BIG and GREEN) I couldn't see the airport but no problem, the VOR said it was straight ahead.

"Long Beach, Cessna 39A at the green tank."
"39A Long Beach, number 2 behind a 150 on crosswind, report traffic in sight."
"39A looking."

I really was looking and not seeing anything I was expecting. I was down to 1500 feet when I saw the VOR station directly over the nose about 3 miles away.
"Long Beach 39A field in sight."
"39A Long Beach, cleared to land, straight in 24L."

About this time It hit me, Cleared to land straight in 24L, my heading is 195 degrees. I see the field and the runway is 24 cutting directly across my light path and something very fast just took off. I grabbed the chart and looked carefully at the LGB area. The VOR was definitely located on an airport only it wasn't;t LGB, it was Los Alamitos NAS.

Making a fast 180 I call:
"Long Beach, Cessna 39A, I ah missed the field and am at Los Alamitos, turning back for the green tank."
"39A Long Beach, Say your exact position."
"Long Beach 39A is 2 North of the VOR heading 355 degrees mag, proceeding to the green tank."
"39A Long Beach, Rodger. Report the green tank."
"39A."

Every thing else went just fine, the landing was uneventful until the tower said;
"39A Right turn when able contact ground -7 clearing.
"39A Right turn and ground -7 clearing."

I wanted to go left and park at the Cessna dealer but I went right.

"Long Beach ground, 39A clear of the left, taxi to Cessna."
"39A Long Beach Ground, negative, taxi to the admin. building, tie down next to the Twin Beech."
"39A, Rodger."

I was met by a very nice gentleman who escorted me to the tower where I had a very pleasant conversation with a gentleman who identified himself as an FAA examiner. We discussed chart reading and navigation in general. He asked for my log book, signed the line I had prepared POM - LGB. Handed me the book and told me to have a safe flight home.

After landing back home, my flight instructor met me as I gassed up the aircraft before taking it to the tie down.

"So, things didn't go quite as planned?"

"Well, I did almost land at Los Alamitos, but I caught myself. No problem after that."

"How was your conversation with Mr. Phelps?"

"Phelps?"

"Yes, the guy in the tower that chewed your ass for making that dumb mistake!"

Oh, him.

[GerryW]

Thank you Don, for sharing!

[David Hilditch]

What was the thread title ? How not to land ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5prz1Ae5QM

(Swiss RJ100 LCY.)

[GerryW]

Wow that's a sturdy bird... and the pilot a lucky guy,

[einesellesenie]

What was the thread title ? How not to land ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5prz1Ae5QM

(Swiss RJ100 LCY.)

Wow, just... wow!

Sturdy bird indeed...

[aardvark2zz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAljM7CaY10

Probably illegal cross winds but great recovery. Maybe camera angle illusion.
.

[Gabriel]

Now this is a real smooth landing in the hands of an experienced pilot seating for his commercial check ride with the examiner in the right seat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K4QHpVXtxI

[Dmmoore]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAljM7CaY10

Probably illegal cross winds but great recovery. Maybe camera angle illusion.
.

It was a windy day with gusty winds of that there is no doubt. What the heck is an illegal cross wind?