US Air Plane down in the Hudson River in NYC

[3WE]

...several days earlier, the same aircraft experienced a compressor stall in flight...

Stupid question: How in the hell do you get a compressor to stall in normal, everyday airline flight in a modern airplane?

(Emphasis on "flight" initial takeoff power-up or reverse thrust on the landing roll on the #2 engine of a 727 doesn't count!).

[Robert Hilton]

...several days earlier, the same aircraft experienced a compressor stall in flight...

Stupid question: How in the hell do you get a compressor to stall in normal, everyday airline flight in a modern airplane?

(Emphasis on "flight" initial takeoff power-up or reverse thrust on the landing roll on the #2 engine of a 727 doesn't count!).

Poor engine management
Dirty compressor
Wind shear across the intake

[3WE]

Stupid question: How in the hell do you get a compressor to stall in normal, everyday airline flight in a modern airplane?

(Emphasis on "flight" initial takeoff power-up or reverse thrust on the landing roll on the #2 engine of a 727 doesn't count!).

Poor engine management
Dirty compressor
Wind shear across the intake

Ok, thanks Robert, but I'd love to hear a little more.

RH: Poor engine management

3WE: I can't say I've ever read of modern jet engines stalling in flight - especially with all the modern FADEC stuff that supposedly controls fuel flow to address jet engines quirks with this sort of thing. How do you trick the FADEC and cause a compressor stall?

RH: Dirty compressor

3WE: Never read about routine compressor washings or problems of dirty compressors. How do you get a compressor dirty? It's hard to belive that compressor blades would accumulate anything from normal levels of atmospheric dust. And modern engines seem to smoke so little, I can't imagine some sort of freak, smoky backwards flow from the combustion chambers with the engine shut down.......

RH: Wind shear across the intake

3WE: Again, you are zooming along at 200 kts, how do you get a goofy, crooked airflow that goes Y2K and stalls the compressor? Old engines and slow speeds and reverse thrust were a formula, but to just stall out when you are fat dumb and happy with a 200 kt wind blowing right up the intake- even if it gets ever-so-slightly off center????? Does this really happen from time to time with modern jet aircraft in normal flight???...or even in a 160 kt "full climb?"

Not trying to pick at your comments, but am asking that if this should be pretty incredibly rare, and what and how often would something like this happen.

[OldSowBreath]

Volcanic ash = dirty compressor?

[ZeroAltitude]

Volcanic ash = dirty compressor?

Saw Cpt. Moody interviewed several times last week

[Dmmoore]

Stupid question: How in the hell do you get a compressor to stall in normal, everyday airline flight in a modern airplane?

(Emphasis on "flight" initial takeoff power-up or reverse thrust on the landing roll on the #2 engine of a 727 doesn't count!).

Poor engine management
Dirty compressor
Wind shear across the intake

Ok, thanks Robert, but I'd love to hear a little more.

RH: Poor engine management

3WE: I can't say I've ever read of modern jet engines stalling in flight - especially with all the modern FADEC stuff that supposedly controls fuel flow to address jet engines quirks with this sort of thing. How do you trick the FADEC and cause a compressor stall?

A faulty speed or pressure sensor will do it. So will a leak in a sense line.

RH: Dirty compressor

3WE: Never read about routine compressor washings or problems of dirty compressors. How do you get a compressor dirty? It's hard to belive that compressor blades would accumulate anything from normal levels of atmospheric dust. And modern engines seem to smoke so little, I can't imagine some sort of freak, smoky backwards flow from the combustion chambers with the engine shut down.......

The blades are airfoils. The air contains dust. Dust collects on the concave side of the compressor blade. Collect enough dust, you get dirt. The engines on the 727 (JT8's) were washed on a calendar schedule (18 months) the GE CF6 the P&W JT9 and 4000 are washed when engine performance dictates.

RH: Wind shear across the intake

3WE: Again, you are zooming along at 200 kts, how do you get a goofy, crooked airflow that goes Y2K and stalls the compressor? Old engines and slow speeds and reverse thrust were a formula, but to just stall out when you are fat dumb and happy with a 200 kt wind blowing right up the intake- even if it gets ever-so-slightly off center????? Does this really happen from time to time with modern jet aircraft in normal flight???...or even in a 160 kt "full climb?"

Not trying to pick at your comments, but am asking that if this should be pretty incredibly rare, and what and how often would something like this happen.

RH simply gave you a cause for a stall, you didn't supply a condition.

Modern engines do not stall as often as was the case of the first and second generation engines but compressor stalls though less prevalent still are events we deal with. Older P&W engines (JT3/J57 through JT9) were built to be stall tolerant. GE engines were not. A stall tolerant engine is heavier and less fuel efficient than a similar engine with a better stall margin.

Why build a stall tolerant engine vs one with a better stall margin? $$$$$$$$$.

[Robert Hilton]

3WE, I see that Don has answered all your questions perfectly and as he rightly pointed out, you asked how it could happen without specifying the conditions. Seeing as I have no idea what he was up to at the time of the comp stalling I could only give the general reasons.

[3WE]

3WE, I see that Don has answered all your questions perfectly and as he rightly pointed out, you asked how it could happen without specifying the conditions. Seeing as I have no idea what he was up to at the time of the comp stalling I could only give the general reasons.

Thanks to both.

It's a tough subject- given that jet engines beat the heck out of piston engines in reliability, dirty blades, and don't amount to "very often".

Now, I DID specify the conditions- normal flight as opposed to slow speed operations with unusual airflow.....something which probably causes a very significant reduction in how often a stall occurs.

[Robert Hilton]

Now, I DID specify the conditions- normal flight as opposed to slow speed operations with unusual airflow.....something which probably causes a very significant reduction in how often a stall occurs.

Which is where poor engine management comes in. By that I mean leaks, wear, electrical or software problems, not the guy on the other end of the throttle.

[andrasz]

Not trying to pick at your comments, but am asking that if this should be pretty incredibly rare, and what and how often would something like this happen.

Would not comment on the causes, those who are more knowledgable have answered above. However did have first hand access to stats at an airline I've been with, with 2 million+ hours of CFM 56 operations (including the on-wing record holder with 40000+ hours). In the past 14 years since the CFM was introduced in the fleet, we NEVER had a compressor stall incident on this engine type. The commonest engine related incidents (maybe 1-2 per year) were commanded reduction to idle due to various sensor failures. As far as I recall, no more than 2 in-flight shutdowns on the whole fleet in the full period.

[ZeroAltitude]

I'm not so sure whether I should find this one amusing or not:

http://www.addictinggames.com/heroonthehudson.html

[GlennAB1]

Very nice....... I crashed a couple of times before being the hero........ hey, even ITS could be a hero now!!!!

[ZilogMan]

Ha, got it at the first try - I know nothing 'bout flying = Pure Beginner's Luck

[Robert Hilton]

I got it on the second attempt, but that is a luxury that Sulley didn't have.

[Sickbag]

Enough is enough. Lets stop ignoring the elephant in the room in this incident.
We all know who the real hero of the Hudson is...


Airbus

Like Capt Sullen Hamburger said "I just did my job and what ever the aircraft told me..'

[B77W-QOTS]

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2009 ... t_cra.html

Any idea where the fuselage was being taken???

[Sickbag]

Any idea where the fuselage was being taken???

To a ticker-Tape parade down 5th Avenue?

[David Hilditch]

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2009 ... t_cra.html

Any idea where the fuselage was being taken???

I understand Harrison, New Jersey, which is close to Newark (the city, not the airport).

[OldSowBreath]

Nice to see the crew honored before the Superbowl. I was in a crowded bar and the patrons even applauded when they came on the screen. It was good to see that the American attention span is more than a few seconds. And BTW - is Faith Hill hot or what?

[Half Bottle]

Not quite sure what to make of this. Part of me wants to go with the headline: "US Airways Thinks Cheap, Misses Golden Opportunity". The other part wants to go with, "Whining Survivors: America at its Finest".

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01302009/ne ... 152720.htm

We crash-landed in the Hudson River - but all we got were these lousy upgrades!

US Airways sent a raft of "frigid" letters to the 150 passengers of miracle Flight 1549 (above) saying their death-defying ordeal has earned them top customer status - but for just one year, The Post has learned. Some who were on the plane - brought down by a flock of geese after takeoff from La Guardia Airport on Jan. 15 - said the temporary tease of first-class perks is for the birds.

"I think if you survive a plane crash, being upgraded permanently is a good gesture too," said Fred Berretta, 41, of Charlotte, NC, where the Airbus A320 was headed.

Manhattanite Tess Sosa, who escaped the sinking plane with her husband and two small children, thought the airline was too focused on self-congratulations - and "they want to exonerate themselves as much as they can."

"They are happy they had such amazing results, and they applaud themselves, and then give us a small token?" she said. "That's how I take it."

[aardvark2zz]

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2009 ... t_cra.html

Any idea where the fuselage was being taken???

Yes. Does that answer your question ? Or c below.
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Submarine museum, or besides submarine at Intrepid museum.
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[B77W-QOTS]

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2009 ... t_cra.html

Any idea where the fuselage was being taken???

I understand Harrison, New Jersey, which is close to Newark (the city, not the airport).

For further investigation or to be scrapped???

[GlennAB1]

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2009 ... t_cra.html

Any idea where the fuselage was being taken???

I understand Harrison, New Jersey, which is close to Newark (the city, not the airport).

For further investigation or to be scrapped???

maybe , and then maybe.

[David Hilditch]

For further investigation or to be scrapped???

For the investigation, which I would think would last many months or longer. Scrapped eventually ? Maybe, but maybe the NTSB will keep it for their training academy near Dulles. It also wouldn't totally surprise me now to see such a famous airframe turn up at some museum.

[Giles]

The crew will be on Larry King Feb 9th. 9pm EST