Continental Buffalo Crash

[orangehuggy]

into house 48 people on board, Dash 8 from Newark flight 3407

[orangehuggy]

10:20 pm, on approach, 1 fatality on ground, seems no survivors on a/c, large fire, some ground injuries, biggest event since aa587 as big as Lexington ... Colgan air q400 in Clarance, NY, Long st.

[orangehuggy]

5.5 miles from threshold of rwy 23 on straight in

[orangehuggy]

icing

[orangehuggy]

in the US worst in 2469 days, over 7 years and 3 months

[schmusimausi73]

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbuf/ ... -0300Z.mp3 <---- KBUF tower at time of accident



Last contact with CO 3407 was at ~16 min. At ~17 min, repeated calls for the aircraft were not answered and a nearby aircraft could not make visual contact.

[Sir Gallivant]

Weather:
2009/02/12 23:54
KBUF 122354Z 24014G22KT 4SM -SN BR BKN013 OVC017 01/M01 A2975 RMK AO2 SLP082 4/001 P0000 60009 T00061006 10022 20006 51025

2009/02/13 00:50
KBUF 130050Z 23017G23KT 1 1/4SM -SN BR OVC015 01/M01 A2977 RMK AO2 SLP088 P0002 T00061006

2009/02/13 01:49
KBUF 130149Z 24015KT 3SM -SN BR FEW011 OVC021 01/M01 A2978 RMK AO2 P0001

2009/02/13 02:54
KBUF 130254Z 24015G22KT 3SM -SN BR FEW011 BKN021 OVC027 01/M01 A2979 RMK AO2 SLP097 P0001 60004 T00061006 51015

2009/02/13 03:54
KBUF 130354Z 24011KT 3SM -SN BR SCT011 OVC021 01/M01 A2981 RMK AO2 SLP103 P0002 T00061006

2009/02/13 04:54
KBUF 130454Z 26014KT 3SM -SN BR SCT011 OVC021 01/00 A2983 RMK AO2 SLP109 P0004 T00060000 401060000

[Sir Gallivant]

Since the aircraft type is the same as the ones SAS had, CNN brings up the 3 SAS accidents where a main landing gear collapsed on touchdown, but neither aircraft lost control in the air from those damaged landing gears.

[David Hilditch]

Not strictly speaking Continental Airlines. The aircraft was owned/operated by Colgan Air on behalf of Continental Connection.

Aircraft was N200WQ - c/n 4200.

[Sir Gallivant]

The aircraft was built in 2008, significantly newer than the SAS aircraft.

[Giles]

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CJC3407

[FrankM]

Just read in a German magazines that one of the passengers Beverly Eckert had lost her husband on 9/11. She was on her way to celebrate his 58th birthday in Buffalo ...

[Putt4Par]

Other flights in the area reported icing.

If icing was the cause of the crash it won't be the first time that icing has been a factor in propeller airplane incidents. Didn't a Brazilia crashed and another one did a full roll due to icing? I hate flying propellers and I always avoid them.

[Gabriel]

Other flights in the area reported icing.

If icing was the cause of the crash it won't be the first time that icing has been a factor in propeller airplane incidents. Didn't a Brazilia crashed and another one did a full roll due to icing? I hate flying propellers and I always avoid them.

There are countless of cases of turbrops geting iced and crashing.

I think this is the second one you mention, and probably the most famous one:

American Eagle Flight 4184 crashed due to icing on 31 October 1994 in Roselawn, Indiana. The accident had a significant effect on procedures for dealing with ATR in-flight icing as well as US airlines' utilization of ATR aircraft in specific geographical areas. After a period of mandatory grounding, American Eagle and Delta Connection permanently stopped using the plane on temperate routes. Since the Eagle incidents, ATR had improved the anti-ice boots,[13] though ice-related incidents continued with the type, including a 2001 crash (see below) and a 2009 event where a smaller ATR-42 variant crashed during landing, in icy conditions.[14] Despite this, ATRs are still used in European markets, including the colder regions of Germany.

[flyboy2548m]

Other flights in the area reported icing.

If icing was the cause of the crash it won't be the first time that icing has been a factor in propeller airplane incidents. Didn't a Brazilia crashed and another one did a full roll due to icing? I hate flying propellers and I always avoid them.

Let's grab a hold of reality and take it for a ride, shall we? They haven't even been able to get to the parts yet.

[supersean]

Rest in Peace.... sad day.

[Princess Leia]

Since the aircraft type is the same as the ones SAS had, CNN brings up the 3 SAS accidents where a main landing gear collapsed on touchdown, but neither aircraft lost control in the air from those damaged landing gears.

But there was an L-1011 that crashed while the flight crew was messing with the gear. It doesn't mean that the gear were a problem here, however it also does not mean that it wasn't.

Wait for the CVR to be analyzed.

[Dmmoore]

Tragic.
RIP

[IntheShade]

Female Pilot

[orangehuggy]

unfortunately fatalities updated to 50

[Putt4Par]

Other flights in the area reported icing.

If icing was the cause of the crash it won't be the first time that icing has been a factor in propeller airplane incidents. Didn't a Brazilia crashed and another one did a full roll due to icing? I hate flying propellers and I always avoid them.

Let's grab a hold of reality and take it for a ride, shall we? They haven't even been able to get to the parts yet.

Oh, I know. I was just speculating based on early reports from other airplanes in the area. I know this is just one of a million possible reasons for the crash.

[IntheShade]

I know this is just one of a million possible reasons for the crash.

Chuck Norris once killed a man by simply showing him how to love.

[Half Bottle]

Ice doesn't accumulate on Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris is colder than ice.

[VectorForFood]

While I sift through some of ITS' insensitive B/S here....

For the people who are scared of "Props"

Keep in mind that the Dash-8 has one of the best safety records in the history of commercial aviation, and that's considering that on these types they're in and around weather much more often than most jets.

I wouldn't hesitate for one second getting on a Dash-8 of any series, while this very early on, if this turns out to be icing please keep in mind how many Dash-8's have been brought down by icing accidents and don't lump them with "Turboprops"

While yes turboprops have the extra requirement to keep ice off the props, every airplane must fly through icing, it also doesn't help that they have thicker cambered (sp?) wings as well which provide a bigger surface to pick up more ice.

However, under almost any circumstances, the only way ice buildup on a Dash could bring it down is either:

A.) Failure of some portion of the De-ice system the Q400 uses boots for de-icing protection, failure of one wing to function properly for example would cause an uncontrollable event should there be enough ice accumulation.

B.)Failure of the flight crew to operate the de-ice system (Although I don't know 100% how it operates on a Q400)

C.) Failure of the flight crew to operate the boot system at the correct time. Leaving it too late, or doing it too early. (Something all pilots flying these aircraft are well trained to do)

[Half Bottle]

While I sift through some of ITS' insensitive B/S here....

Translation: while I debated whether it was worth the risk to post something containing the words, "Dash-8"....