FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

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David Hilditch
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FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby David Hilditch » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:10 pm

Developing story, as they say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6cMK9LUnzI

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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby flyboy2548m » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:34 pm

Wasn't Charles, before anyone asks.
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby Princess Leia » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:10 am

Video released. Flipped on its back like the EWR and Mandaran crash.
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby 3WE » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:21 am

Wow.

I can't say for sure but did they hit hard on the first touchdown?

And would the floor have collapsed and jamed control cables causing up elevator? (Yeah, one of those things that I have no business suggesting this early).
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby flyboy2548m » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:35 am

And would the floor have collapsed and jammed control cables causing up elevator? (Yeah, one of those things that I have no business suggesting this early).
At least this one is pretty creative.
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby Will » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:45 am

I just heard winds were extreme...gusts of around 90knots had been recorded....speculation around a strong gust of wind at the point of touchdown....resulted in extremely hard touch down, bounce and came down on its nose gear....would be interesting to hear the CVR!!!

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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby flyboy2548m » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:52 am

I just heard winds were extreme...gusts of around 90knots had been recorded....speculation around a strong gust of wind at the point of touchdown....resulted in extremely hard touch down, bounce and came down on its nose gear....would be interesting to hear the CVR!!!
The METAR shows nothing higher than 40 around the time of the crash and sustained at 18 some 30 minutes later, so I doubt the 90kt thing.
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby Will » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:53 am

Last edited by Will on Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby flyboy2548m » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:54 am

METAR RJAA 222200Z 31026G40KT 9999 FEW020 12/M02 Q1001 NOSIG RMK 1CU020 A2957 P/RR

METAR RJAA 222230Z 30018KT 9999 FEW030 12/M03 Q1001 WS R34R TEMPO 31020G30KT RMK 1CU030 A2959 2218 MOD TURB BLW 500FT ON FNA RWY34R B767

SPECI RJAA 222238Z 30019G32KT 9999 FEW030 12/M03 Q1002 WS R34R RMK 1CU030 A2959
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby VectorForFood » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:56 am

Incredible video... thoguhts go out to the crew and the families. They say 2 pilots onboard (obviously) , FedEx doesn't carry loadmasters I assume?

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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby flyboy2548m » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:58 am

Incredible video... thoguhts go out to the crew and the families. They say 2 pilots onboard (obviously) , FedEx doesn't carry loadmasters I assume?
Not usually.
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby VectorForFood » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:59 am

I should also add, my thoughts go out to our own ITS, I'm sure there's a pretty good chance he knows the crew.

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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby flyboy2548m » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:01 am

I should also add, my thoughts go out to our own ITS, I'm sure there's a pretty good chance he knows the crew.
Yeah, he's a little bummed, hopefully he'll be posting his thoughts on this soon.
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby Sickbag » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:37 am

I've seen a number of of Fed ex aircraft crash pictures (thanks to Jet captain) that appear to have flipped onto their back,is this accident because of some trait in the the aircraft design or operation ? (assuming they were the same type)
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby Dmmoore » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:07 am

This was the first fatal accident for FedEx.
Yes, it is similar to the FedEx MED at EWR and the Mandarin at HKG.
No SB you have not seen several FedEx MD-11's up side down, you have seen one (EWR).

The failure mode seems to be linked to a high sink rate and a side load at touchdown. One of the main gear fails placing load on the engine/pylon. The pylon fails and the wing tip drags. At some point the wing fails due to overload at about the pylon attach point, rupturing the wing fuel tank and the aircraft flips inverted. Fire starts when the leaking fuel ignites.

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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby Gabriel » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:23 am

The failure mode seems to be linked to a high sink rate and a side load at touchdown. One of the main gear fails placing load on the engine/pylon. The pylon fails and the wing tip drags. At some point the wing fails due to overload at about the pylon attach point, rupturing the wing fuel tank and the aircraft flips inverted. Fire starts when the leaking fuel ignites.
This looks Ok for the second touchdown. But what would make the airplane pitch up so markedly after the first touchdown and immediatly after pitch down so much and so quickly? The pitch angle went fromseveral degrees noose up to several degrees nose down in about one second (to compare, a typical rotation rate during take-off is 3 degrees per second, the nose-down pitch rate here was about 5 times as fast)

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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby David Hilditch » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:13 am

This was the first fatal accident for FedEx.
They've had some very near misses in the past, however. I know they have a large fleet, but you have to wonder, if they were a passenger airline, what people's perceptions of the company would be given their poor hull loss record in the past 10 or so years.

I accept this may be a little ghoulish, but there's some better video footage here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6cMK9LUnzI

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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby AndyToop » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:11 am

The failure mode seems to be linked to a high sink rate and a side load at touchdown. One of the main gear fails placing load on the engine/pylon. The pylon fails and the wing tip drags. At some point the wing fails due to overload at about the pylon attach point, rupturing the wing fuel tank and the aircraft flips inverted. Fire starts when the leaking fuel ignites.
This looks Ok for the second touchdown. But what would make the airplane pitch up so markedly after the first touchdown and immediatly after pitch down so much and so quickly? The pitch angle went fromseveral degrees noose up to several degrees nose down in about one second (to compare, a typical rotation rate during take-off is 3 degrees per second, the nose-down pitch rate here was about 5 times as fast)
The plane is still airborne when the first pitch oscilation occurs. It only touched down once. My first impression was some kind of windshear.

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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby GlennAB1 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:37 am

That was an ugly bounce........ very sad. RIP
you still have to find a crew willing to fly this "barely airworthy" heap
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby Schorsch » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:00 am

This was the first fatal accident for FedEx.
They've had some very near misses in the past, however. I know they have a large fleet, but you have to wonder, if they were a passenger airline, what people's perceptions of the company would be given their poor hull loss record in the past 10 or so years.

I accept this may be a little ghoulish, but there's some better video footage here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6cMK9LUnzI
You mean 3 hull loss events at similar flight phases by the same airline with the same aircraft type constitute a mini series?
Dare you are!

I think the MD-11 is a flawed design and 6 hull loss events out of 200 aircraft underline this.
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby andrasz » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:21 am

The plane is still airborne when the first pitch oscilation occurs. It only touched down once. My first impression was some kind of windshear.
No it isn't. On the video you can clearly see the rubber smoke at first touch-down, which appears normal until the nose starts coming down very quickly.

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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby flyboy2548m » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:01 pm

The plane is still airborne when the first pitch oscilation occurs. It only touched down once.
Watch the video again, Andy. It touched down at least twice.
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby flyboy2548m » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:03 pm

No SB you have not seen several FedEx MD-11's up side down, you have seen one (EWR).
Perhaps not, but this is what, FedEx's 6th approach accident?
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby 3WE » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:05 pm

I just heard winds were extreme...gusts of around 90knots had been recorded....speculation around a strong gust of wind at the point of touchdown....resulted in extremely hard touch down, bounce and came down on its nose gear....would be interesting to hear the CVR!!!
The METAR shows nothing higher than 40 around the time of the crash and sustained at 18 some 30 minutes later, so I doubt the 90kt thing.
I hear you on the 90-kt thing being unlikely, but on the other hand, whatever instrument supplies the wind speed for the METAR is one small point, and who really knows what wind speed they might have encounterd in a stray gust.....60 kts to pull a number out of my ass?????
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Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita

Postby flyboy2548m » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:08 pm

I hear you on the 90-kt thing being unlikely, but on the other hand, whatever instrument supplies the wind speed for the METAR is one small point, and who really knows what wind speed they might have encounterd in a stray gust.....60 kts to pull a number out of my ass?????
You're right, the METAR could say no winds at all while numerous 200kt gusts were taking place. 200kts just to pull a number out of my ass, of course.
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