FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
Moderators: FrankM, el, Dmmoore
-
- Posts: 1201
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:33 pm
- Location: Washington DC
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
- Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
Wasn't Charles, before anyone asks.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
- Princess Leia
- Posts: 641
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:44 am
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
Video released. Flipped on its back like the EWR and Mandaran crash.
May a plethora of uncultivated palaeontologists raise the dead in a way that makes your blood boil
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
Wow.
I can't say for sure but did they hit hard on the first touchdown?
And would the floor have collapsed and jamed control cables causing up elevator? (Yeah, one of those things that I have no business suggesting this early).
I can't say for sure but did they hit hard on the first touchdown?
And would the floor have collapsed and jamed control cables causing up elevator? (Yeah, one of those things that I have no business suggesting this early).
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
- Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
At least this one is pretty creative.And would the floor have collapsed and jammed control cables causing up elevator? (Yeah, one of those things that I have no business suggesting this early).
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
I just heard winds were extreme...gusts of around 90knots had been recorded....speculation around a strong gust of wind at the point of touchdown....resulted in extremely hard touch down, bounce and came down on its nose gear....would be interesting to hear the CVR!!!
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
- Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
The METAR shows nothing higher than 40 around the time of the crash and sustained at 18 some 30 minutes later, so I doubt the 90kt thing.I just heard winds were extreme...gusts of around 90knots had been recorded....speculation around a strong gust of wind at the point of touchdown....resulted in extremely hard touch down, bounce and came down on its nose gear....would be interesting to hear the CVR!!!
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
Last edited by Will on Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
- Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
METAR RJAA 222200Z 31026G40KT 9999 FEW020 12/M02 Q1001 NOSIG RMK 1CU020 A2957 P/RR
METAR RJAA 222230Z 30018KT 9999 FEW030 12/M03 Q1001 WS R34R TEMPO 31020G30KT RMK 1CU030 A2959 2218 MOD TURB BLW 500FT ON FNA RWY34R B767
SPECI RJAA 222238Z 30019G32KT 9999 FEW030 12/M03 Q1002 WS R34R RMK 1CU030 A2959
METAR RJAA 222230Z 30018KT 9999 FEW030 12/M03 Q1001 WS R34R TEMPO 31020G30KT RMK 1CU030 A2959 2218 MOD TURB BLW 500FT ON FNA RWY34R B767
SPECI RJAA 222238Z 30019G32KT 9999 FEW030 12/M03 Q1002 WS R34R RMK 1CU030 A2959
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
- VectorForFood
- Posts: 859
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:49 am
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
Incredible video... thoguhts go out to the crew and the families. They say 2 pilots onboard (obviously) , FedEx doesn't carry loadmasters I assume?
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
- Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
Not usually.Incredible video... thoguhts go out to the crew and the families. They say 2 pilots onboard (obviously) , FedEx doesn't carry loadmasters I assume?
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
- VectorForFood
- Posts: 859
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:49 am
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
I should also add, my thoughts go out to our own ITS, I'm sure there's a pretty good chance he knows the crew.
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
- Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
Yeah, he's a little bummed, hopefully he'll be posting his thoughts on this soon.I should also add, my thoughts go out to our own ITS, I'm sure there's a pretty good chance he knows the crew.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
I've seen a number of of Fed ex aircraft crash pictures (thanks to Jet captain) that appear to have flipped onto their back,is this accident because of some trait in the the aircraft design or operation ? (assuming they were the same type)
2022: The year of the Squid Singularity
- Dmmoore
- 08/12/1946 - 06/05/2009 Rest In Peace
- Posts: 1002
- Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:07 pm
- Location: Prescott, AZ. USA
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
This was the first fatal accident for FedEx.
Yes, it is similar to the FedEx MED at EWR and the Mandarin at HKG.
No SB you have not seen several FedEx MD-11's up side down, you have seen one (EWR).
The failure mode seems to be linked to a high sink rate and a side load at touchdown. One of the main gear fails placing load on the engine/pylon. The pylon fails and the wing tip drags. At some point the wing fails due to overload at about the pylon attach point, rupturing the wing fuel tank and the aircraft flips inverted. Fire starts when the leaking fuel ignites.
May the flight crew RIP. May their loved ones find peace.
Yes, it is similar to the FedEx MED at EWR and the Mandarin at HKG.
No SB you have not seen several FedEx MD-11's up side down, you have seen one (EWR).
The failure mode seems to be linked to a high sink rate and a side load at touchdown. One of the main gear fails placing load on the engine/pylon. The pylon fails and the wing tip drags. At some point the wing fails due to overload at about the pylon attach point, rupturing the wing fuel tank and the aircraft flips inverted. Fire starts when the leaking fuel ignites.
May the flight crew RIP. May their loved ones find peace.
Don
As accomplished by managers around the world
READY - FIRE - AIM!
As accomplished by managers around the world
READY - FIRE - AIM!
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
This looks Ok for the second touchdown. But what would make the airplane pitch up so markedly after the first touchdown and immediatly after pitch down so much and so quickly? The pitch angle went fromseveral degrees noose up to several degrees nose down in about one second (to compare, a typical rotation rate during take-off is 3 degrees per second, the nose-down pitch rate here was about 5 times as fast)The failure mode seems to be linked to a high sink rate and a side load at touchdown. One of the main gear fails placing load on the engine/pylon. The pylon fails and the wing tip drags. At some point the wing fails due to overload at about the pylon attach point, rupturing the wing fuel tank and the aircraft flips inverted. Fire starts when the leaking fuel ignites.
-
- Posts: 1201
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:33 pm
- Location: Washington DC
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
They've had some very near misses in the past, however. I know they have a large fleet, but you have to wonder, if they were a passenger airline, what people's perceptions of the company would be given their poor hull loss record in the past 10 or so years.This was the first fatal accident for FedEx.
I accept this may be a little ghoulish, but there's some better video footage here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6cMK9LUnzI
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
The plane is still airborne when the first pitch oscilation occurs. It only touched down once. My first impression was some kind of windshear.This looks Ok for the second touchdown. But what would make the airplane pitch up so markedly after the first touchdown and immediatly after pitch down so much and so quickly? The pitch angle went fromseveral degrees noose up to several degrees nose down in about one second (to compare, a typical rotation rate during take-off is 3 degrees per second, the nose-down pitch rate here was about 5 times as fast)The failure mode seems to be linked to a high sink rate and a side load at touchdown. One of the main gear fails placing load on the engine/pylon. The pylon fails and the wing tip drags. At some point the wing fails due to overload at about the pylon attach point, rupturing the wing fuel tank and the aircraft flips inverted. Fire starts when the leaking fuel ignites.
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
That was an ugly bounce........ very sad. RIP
LOL100% incorrect Ever hear of Ferry Permit? issued for Non airworthy aircraftno such thing as "barely airworthy" it's either Airworthy or Notyou still have to find a crew willing to fly this "barely airworthy" heap
- Schorsch
- Posts: 473
- Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:33 am
- Location: Just next door to the German Poker Club
- Contact:
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
You mean 3 hull loss events at similar flight phases by the same airline with the same aircraft type constitute a mini series?They've had some very near misses in the past, however. I know they have a large fleet, but you have to wonder, if they were a passenger airline, what people's perceptions of the company would be given their poor hull loss record in the past 10 or so years.This was the first fatal accident for FedEx.
I accept this may be a little ghoulish, but there's some better video footage here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6cMK9LUnzI
Dare you are!
I think the MD-11 is a flawed design and 6 hull loss events out of 200 aircraft underline this.
Publicly, we say one thing... Actually, we do another.
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
No it isn't. On the video you can clearly see the rubber smoke at first touch-down, which appears normal until the nose starts coming down very quickly.The plane is still airborne when the first pitch oscilation occurs. It only touched down once. My first impression was some kind of windshear.
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
- Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
Watch the video again, Andy. It touched down at least twice.The plane is still airborne when the first pitch oscilation occurs. It only touched down once.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
- Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
Perhaps not, but this is what, FedEx's 6th approach accident?No SB you have not seen several FedEx MD-11's up side down, you have seen one (EWR).
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
I hear you on the 90-kt thing being unlikely, but on the other hand, whatever instrument supplies the wind speed for the METAR is one small point, and who really knows what wind speed they might have encounterd in a stray gust.....60 kts to pull a number out of my ass?????The METAR shows nothing higher than 40 around the time of the crash and sustained at 18 some 30 minutes later, so I doubt the 90kt thing.I just heard winds were extreme...gusts of around 90knots had been recorded....speculation around a strong gust of wind at the point of touchdown....resulted in extremely hard touch down, bounce and came down on its nose gear....would be interesting to hear the CVR!!!
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
- Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Re: FedEx MD-11 crash at Narita
You're right, the METAR could say no winds at all while numerous 200kt gusts were taking place. 200kts just to pull a number out of my ass, of course.I hear you on the 90-kt thing being unlikely, but on the other hand, whatever instrument supplies the wind speed for the METAR is one small point, and who really knows what wind speed they might have encounterd in a stray gust.....60 kts to pull a number out of my ass?????
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests