Air France jet missing

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VectorForFood
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby VectorForFood » Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:42 am

How about simply a complete electrical failure, followed by a crew distracted trying to resolve the issue and begin a slow descent into the water?

Not like similar events haven't happened before.

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Gabriel
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby Gabriel » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:14 am

How about simply a complete electrical failure,...
Define "complete".
On one hand, several ACARS messages were sent during the evnt, so the "complete" electrical failure could not be "that complete".
On the other hand, none of the several ACARS messages was related to any fault in any electrical system.

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PurduePilot
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby PurduePilot » Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:59 am

How about simply a complete electrical failure, followed by a crew distracted trying to resolve the issue and begin a slow descent into the water?

Not like similar events haven't happened before.
Is that consistent with the reported evidence of a relatively level-attitude but high descent rate impact? (Spinal compression, etc., in the passengers)

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VectorForFood
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby VectorForFood » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:08 pm

How about simply a complete electrical failure, followed by a crew distracted trying to resolve the issue and begin a slow descent into the water?

Not like similar events haven't happened before.
Is that consistent with the reported evidence of a relatively level-attitude but high descent rate impact? (Spinal compression, etc., in the passengers)
If you're flying at 300+knots IAS and impact the water at 5-10Degrees nose down could you get those results?

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PurduePilot
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby PurduePilot » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:14 pm

How about simply a complete electrical failure, followed by a crew distracted trying to resolve the issue and begin a slow descent into the water?

Not like similar events haven't happened before.
Is that consistent with the reported evidence of a relatively level-attitude but high descent rate impact? (Spinal compression, etc., in the passengers)
If you're flying at 300+knots IAS and impact the water at 5-10Degrees nose down could you get those results?
I dunno... I feel like that'd be more of a frontal impact. Just because your car is at an angle of 20 degrees to the road when you slam headfirst into the tree doesn't mean you're going to be thrown sideways in your seat...

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Gabriel
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby Gabriel » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:54 pm

How about simply a complete electrical failure, followed by a crew distracted trying to resolve the issue and begin a slow descent into the water?

Not like similar events haven't happened before.
Is that consistent with the reported evidence of a relatively level-attitude but high descent rate impact? (Spinal compression, etc., in the passengers)
If you're flying at 300+knots IAS and impact the water at 5-10Degrees nose down could you get those results?
I don't think so.
First, 300 kts into the water, even in a not so steep angle (but not skimming the water either), sounds like hitting a mountain.
Second, it was wll established in the last interim report that the plane hit in an almost level attitude buit tail first (that is, at a somehow small nose-up pitch attitude).

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supersean
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby supersean » Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:11 pm

Wow.... the BEA is about to release a tender for wreckage recovery to continue the investigation

http://www.aeromorning.com/en/chroniques.php?ch_id=630
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Verbal
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby Verbal » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:40 pm

Intriguing.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 80,00.html

Snip:
The situation in the cockpit was made even more difficult by the fact that the flight computer of the A330 put itself into a kind of emergency program. The plane's digital brain usually supervises all activity by its pilots -- at least, as long as its sensors provide reliable data. Without a speed reading, the computer more or -less throws in the towel, which doesn't make things easier for the pilots.

"The controls suddenly feel completely different to the pilot," says flight expert Hüttig. The sheer complexity of the Airbus' systems makes it difficult to control in critical phases of the flight. It would be easier for pilots if they could simply switch the computer off in critical situations, as is possible on Boeing planes.
Now what's it doing?
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3WE
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby 3WE » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:35 pm

....

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 80,00.html
Snip....
...difficult to control in critical phases of the flight...turn off....
Now what's it doing?
You know that phrase when you download unapproved software to your Apple I- phone....you turn it into a brick, or "brick it"

I'm thinking it's analogous here...oh the irnoning though.
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sindeewell
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby sindeewell » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:21 pm

Latest news is that there is an effort to try and retrieve the black boxes (can anyone say "Needle in a haystack"?
Undersea Search Resumes for France Flight 447 Analysis by Tracy Staedter | Tue Mar 30, 2010 01:43 PM ET On June 1, 2009, Air France Flight 447 disappeared in turbulent weather en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris. For the remainder of the summer, two major efforts were launched by search and rescue crews to find the remains of the plane and the 228 people who had been on board, with great hopes of also finding the two data recorders. So far, 51 bodies and 1,000 pieces of wreckage have been found, but not the data recorders, which only emit signals for 30 days.

Finding the so-called black boxes is key to understanding what happened to the airplane.

Now, a new international sea search operation has formed to locate the Airbus A 330 and retrieve the flight recorders. The recovery mission, expected to last about a month, will employ two ships, one that will use sonar machines dragged by cables to scan the seabed and another that will deploy three autonomous underwater vehicles, the REMUS 6000s, which are designed and operated by Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute in Massachusetts.

The vehicles are able to dive to depths of 3.73 miles and stay underwater for up to 20 hours per day. They will use sonar technology to survey the mountainous terrain characteristic of the Mid-Ocean Ridge below this part of the Atlantic Ocean, and will be able to gather data about a third of a mile out to either side of the vehicle.

Upon returning to the mother ship, he data compiled by the underwater vehicles will be immediately downloaded and analyzed. If the information suggests evidence of any debris, another REMUS 6000 will be dispatched to the area to snap up-close images using high-resolution cameras.

The scientists estimate that the vehicles will be able to scan about 30 square miles a day.

If anyone can find the wreck of Flight 447, its WHOI, who is probably best known for locating the Titanic in 1985.
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Rabbi O'Genius
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Search to be resumed

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:58 pm

Air France to resume Atlantic flight recorder search
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11843453
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Rabbi O'Genius
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:21 am

Airbus faces manslaughter charges over Rio crash
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12777474
......never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. – John Donne

zerooneleft
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby zerooneleft » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:55 am

Like very much what Snip said: No good? Switch it off. If you can't don't fly that plane. 01L

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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby flyboy2548m » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:43 pm

Like very much what Snip said: No good? Switch it off. If you can't don't fly that plane. 01L
Brilliant!
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby Hazmat » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:43 pm

New news on bbc news.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12953432
Wreckage from Air France jet found in Atlantic
F-GZCP, the Air France jet which crashed, in an image from 2001 (AirTeamImages) No-one survived the crash.


Wreckage from an Air France jet lost over the Atlantic nearly two years ago with 228 people on board has been found, French investigators say.

With the cause of the crash still unknown, a fourth attempt to locate the plane's voice and data recorders got under way last month.

Searchers located wreckage during the past 24 hours, investigators in Paris said, without giving details.

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J
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby J » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:36 pm

France says finds bodies in Atlantic crash wreckage
Excerpt:
(Reuters) - Parts of the wreckage of an Air France plane found in the Atlantic at the weekend contain the bodies of some of the passengers who died when the aircraft crashed off Brazil in 2009, the French government said on Monday.
* * *
Transport Minister Thierry Mariani said victims' families would be informed of the findings at a meeting at the end of the week and no further details would be made public before then.

"It's true that bodies have been seen, but given the sensitive nature of the subject we prefer to keep certain details for the families," he told France Info radio.

The discovery of the chunks of the Air France (AIRF.PA) wreckage in a vast search radius of some 10,000 square kilometres, has raised hopes that the aircraft's flight recorders, or black boxes, might now be found.

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/ ... 2V20110404

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Sickbag
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby Sickbag » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:01 pm

France says finds bodies in Atlantic crash wreckage

Has Al been alerted?
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Ed
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby Ed » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:13 pm

France says finds bodies in Atlantic crash wreckage

Has Al been alerted?
He has already been forwarded (shhhh) top secret pictures. Apparently the degree of tissue decomposition is directly related to pitot tube operation (which is a little known fact).

On another note: I find the timing of this search (and especially wreckage location) interesting considering the lawsuits that are in their infancy. For many months they could not detect a trace...now they find big sections and bodies....almost like they knew where to look all the time................

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VectorForFood
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby VectorForFood » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:57 am

AAL587, I said it was my theory from almost day 1.

IF that long stretch turned out to be true, if I was Airbus/air France I'd try to cover it up too...

Not the first time that team has covered up evidence in order to protect their image.

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J
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby J » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:46 am

Here are some photographs including landing gear and an engine.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/world ... ss&emc=rss

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VectorForFood
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby VectorForFood » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:34 am

Image

Interesting the flaps appear to have been removed... due to impact?

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PurduePilot
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby PurduePilot » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:33 pm

Image

Interesting the flaps appear to have been removed... due to impact?
This parlour talker thinks that could be consistent with a flat attitude, high rate of descent impact.

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Sickbag
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby Sickbag » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:25 pm

Image

Interesting the flaps appear to have been removed... due to impact?

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility of Squid involvement in this
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J
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby J » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:15 pm

Air France Recorder Found, but Missing Its Memory
EXCERPT:
Martine Del Bono, a spokesman for France’s Bureau of Accident Investigations, said the memory module of the plane’s flight data recorder — which contains information on the plane’s position, speed, altitude and heading when it ran into trouble — had been “dissociated” from its protective housing. “This is no doubt due to the shock of impact with the water,” she said.

French investigators said the recorder was located by underwater drones late Tuesday, surrounded by debris from other parts of the airplane. The search continued Wednesday for the missing component, as well as for a second black box, which contains recordings of the conversations in the cockpit in the minutes before the crash.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/world ... .html?_r=1
Interesting that large portions of the plane (interior bulkheads) survived impact and were found floating but the data recorder was damaged.

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Procede
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Re: Air France jet missing

Postby Procede » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:44 pm

FlightGlobal has a picture: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ssing.html

As you can see, the crash-survivable memory unit (CSMU) is missing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fdr_sidefront.jpg


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