Air France jet missing

[PurduePilot]

Ike, did you do this high altitude stall training in the sim or in the airplane?

[flyboy2548m]

Ike, did you do this high altitude stall training in the sim or in the airplane?

You're kidding, right? Please, tell me you're kidding.

[Giles]

Attention to detail: FAIL

[flyboy2548m]

Attention to detail: FAIL

No fail at all, Giles. I just keep expecting the most successful engineering intern in Boeing's history to rise above two-bit puns, but keep getting disappointed.

[3WE]

I know what happened the last time a real CRJ was stalled at altitude.

Flaming out the engines is probably something you want to avoid, even if you know the restart procedure cold.

Plus, it costs a few bucks to get up there to practice.

[PurduePilot]

Ike, did you do this high altitude stall training in the sim or in the airplane?

You're kidding, right? Please, tell me you're kidding.

You wanted a question so I gave you one. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

[flyboy2548m]

You wanted a question so I gave you one. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

Actually, you're the one who said you wanted to hear more about my training on the issue in question. My real attention to detail FAIL was in thinking you meant it. Won't happen again, see Gabriel for all subsequent questions.

[Putt4Par]

Ike, did you do this high altitude stall training in the sim or in the airplane?

In the airplane with 50 screaming passangers in the back

I'd image this kind of training is done in the simulator...

[OldSowBreath]

You could do it in any mini-van in Texas for the 50 screaming passengers part...

[B77W-QOTS]

Ike, did you do this high altitude stall training in the sim or in the airplane?

You're kidding, right? Please, tell me you're kidding.

You wanted a question so I gave you one. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

I thought it was 'don't get your knickers in a knot'?

[Verbal]

Dude, let's 41 it.

[PurduePilot]

You could do it in any mini-van in Texas for the 50 screaming Mexicans part...

Fixed.

[3WE]

I don't suppose that Ike would describe his high-altitude exercises?

I assume that actual "full" stalls are avoided since they can cause flame outs?

Is there anything besides skilled, careful and critical attitude control while monitoring airspeed, and altitude/VS?

Are there manuvers where you lose some altitude.....how much altitude?

[Not_Karl]

Are there manuvers where you lose some altitude.....

Landing.

[flyboy2548m]

Are there manuvers where you lose some altitude.....

Landing.

Yes, landing is definitely one such maneuver.

[Sir Gallivant]

Are there manuvers where you lose some altitude.....

Landing.

Yes, landing is definitely one such maneuver.

Except if you land at Courchevel, of course

[monchavo]

Popular Mechanics have had a go at this one and put some analysis around the CVR.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/print-t ... 7?page=all

Their conclusion: Bonin fúcked up and killed them all.

[3WE]

Popular Mechanics have had a go at this one and put some analysis around the CVR.

"Mais je suis à fond à cabrer depuis tout à l'heure!"

[Verbal]

Hi–tech controls partly blamed for Airbus crash
The Daily Telegraph (London) 04/28/2012
Author: Nick Ross
Copyright (C) 2012 The Daily Telegraph; Source: World Reporter (TM)

An Airbus crash that killed 228 people could have been avoided if the jet's sophisticated electronic control sticks had been of traditional design, aviation experts have claimed.

The Air France A330 plunged 38,000ft into the Atlantic on June 1, 2009, due to a chain of events in which pilots' use of small "side sticks" to control the aircraft played a part, it is alleged.

A full report on the loss of Flight AF447 is due out in June and is expected to focus on pilot error. But crash investigators told The Daily Telegraph that an apparent misunderstanding between the pilot and two senior colleagues in the cockpit may have been caused by the use of "side sticks", which look similar to computer game joy sticks and are less visible than traditional control columns.

[3WE]

If In the Shade were active in the forum, I believe he would say,

"Indeed."

[Gabriel]

Popular Mechanics have had a go at this one and put some analysis around the CVR.

"Mais je suis à fond à cabrer depuis tout à l'heure!"

Indeed

If ITS was around here, he should be at elast as "offended" by the lack of airmanship as by the contribution of computers and cheap composites.

[J]

Final Report out. Major issue is poor crew training.
http://www.bea.aero/en/enquetes/flight. ... af.447.php

[Verbal]

Airbus flight's crash 'much less likely to happen' in Boeing jet, Sullenberger says

One of the most famous pilots in aviation history says the crash of Air France Flight 447 would have been "much less likely to happen" if the doomed jetliner had been a Boeing plane instead of an Airbus jet.

CBS News reporter Mark Strassman posed the question to Captain Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger, who safely guided all 155 passengers and crew aboard US Airways Flight 1549 to an emergency water landing in New York in January, 2009.

"I think it would have been much less likely to happen in a Boeing because the control wheels are large; they are obvious," Sullenberger said. "I think it could hardly have been missed."

For more than two years, a few pieces of debris floating in the Atlantic Ocean were all that was left of Flight 447, the answer to what happened seemingly lost forever on the ocean floor.

In May 2011, state-of-the-art submarines made a remarkable dive more than 2 miles below the ocean's surface and collected the crucial black box.

Expert analysis of the reported cockpit transcripts point to a perfect storm of problems, including weather, aircraft malfunction and pilot error.

But some said there was another contributing factor: the design of the Airbus cockpit.

CBS News sought help in understanding what happened from Sullenberger, who took Strassman into an Airbus simulator.

Sullenberger showed how little movement of the Airbus's sidestick is needed to raise the nose of the plane. (Boeing planes are flown with yokes.)

Pilots rarely perform the maneuver at high altitudes because it can be dangerous, but that's exactly what one Flight 447 pilot did, Strassman said.

Around 2:05 a.m., the Airbus A330 was flying through a storm system and all three of its speed indicators stopped working. As a result, the aircraft's autopilot turned off.

With the captain on break, the two co-pilots were forced to manually fly the plane.

The least experienced pilot, 32-year-old Pierre Cedric Bonin, was in the right seat, and said, "I have the controls."

Co-pilot David Robert was in the left seat, and even though considerably more experienced, he let Bonin fly.

Sullenberger: "Theoretically, it was possible to still fly the airplane under those conditions."

Strassman: "Challenging, but manageable?"

Sullenberger: "Yes."

Although they lost the autopilot and speed indicators, they were flying normally and safely. But then, suddenly, and without Robert knowing, Bonin did something almost inexplicable; he pulled back on his sidestick and raised the nose of the plane. That caused the aircraft to fall, and the stall warning sounded.

Over the next four and a half minutes, the stall warning sounded 75 times. But strangely, neither pilot mentioned it. And unbeknownst to Robert, Bonin kept the nose of the plane up almost the entire time -- exactly what he shouldn't do. It's a decision experts still can't understand.

Sullenberger: "It's difficult to explain. I just don't know why he did that."

Strassman: "And there is nothing to you that makes sense on any experience or intellectual level about pulling back when you should push forward?"

Sullenberger: "No."

Mark: "Nothing at all?"

Sullenberger: "No."

The chief investigator said the two pilots didn't "understand" the plane was in a stall.

The report finds they were in "a situation of near total loss of control."

Airbus would not comment for the CBS News investigation. When KIRO 7 Eyewitness News called Boeing on Thursday for comment, a representative said the company didn't want to say anything specific about Sullenberger's comment.

The representative did say "Boeing is looking at the (crash) report to see if there are any safety issues that could apply to Boeing aircraft. We strive to make our airplanes as safe as we can, and we know that Airbus does, as well."

Sullenberger and others are calling for increased pilot training, and perhaps even changes to the Airbus cockpit design.

"If we only blame the pilots, we will not have changed any of the fundamental underlying conditions. We won't have done our best to prevent this from happening again," Sullenberger said.

And prevention, he said, should be the goal of the investigation.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/airbus- ... ein/nPm99/

[Rabbi O'Genius]

Somewhat disingenous of them not to mention the aircraft type on which Sullenberger became "One of the most famous pilots in aviation history".

[ocelot]

Nice idea, but it didn't help the Colgan Air guys.