Question regarding baggage

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sindeewell
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Question regarding baggage

Postby sindeewell » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:52 pm

Mods, if this isn't where this thread should go then feel free to move it.

My question is: from a security standpoint, can an aerosol cannister (in this case, bug repellent) be packed in the checked baggage? I've read through everything on the airline's website, but it doesn't really say anything about checked luggage. I know all about carry on and what not to take. I'm just curious about the checked baggage.

Thanks in advance for your help.
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FrankM
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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby FrankM » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:11 pm

From my personal experience I can say that they are VERY uneasy about oxygen. But I never had any problems with other pressurized containers in the luggage.
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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby sindeewell » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:22 pm

From my personal experience I can say that they are VERY uneasy about oxygen. But I never had any problems with other pressurized containers in the luggage.
Thanks Frank. Its bug spray/repellent that we want to take but if its going to be a problem/issue, it will stay home. I just don't want it to explode (or would it be implode???) in my suitcase somewhere over Virginia.
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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby Half Bottle » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:26 pm

From my personal experience I can say that they are VERY uneasy about oxygen. But I never had any problems with other pressurized containers in the luggage.
Thanks Frank. Its bug spray/repellent that we want to take but if its going to be a problem/issue, it will stay home. I just don't want it to explode (or would it be implode???) in my suitcase somewhere over Virginia.
Yes, over Maryland would be preferable. Please aim for Giles.
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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby sindeewell » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:32 pm

From my personal experience I can say that they are VERY uneasy about oxygen. But I never had any problems with other pressurized containers in the luggage.
Thanks Frank. Its bug spray/repellent that we want to take but if its going to be a problem/issue, it will stay home. I just don't want it to explode (or would it be implode???) in my suitcase somewhere over Virginia.
Yes, over Maryland would be preferable. Please aim for Giles.
Was wondering if you would pick up on that Halfie... :lol:
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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby tds » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:09 pm

Thanks Frank. Its bug spray/repellent that we want to take but if its going to be a problem/issue, it will stay home. I just don't want it to explode (or would it be implode???) in my suitcase somewhere over Virginia.
The TSA (Transportation Security Administration - respect my authoritaa!) positively suggest putting aerosols into checked baggage. I'm sure if there was any serious problem with it they wouldn't.

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby Giles » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:05 pm

From my personal experience I can say that they are VERY uneasy about oxygen. But I never had any problems with other pressurized containers in the luggage.
Thanks Frank. Its bug spray/repellent that we want to take but if its going to be a problem/issue, it will stay home. I just don't want it to explode (or would it be implode???) in my suitcase somewhere over Virginia.
why would it? if im not mistaken the cargo holds are part of the pressurized vessel....

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby Giles » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:05 pm

Yes, over Maryland would be preferable. Please aim for Giles.
:lol:

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby Angelic One » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:39 pm

From my personal experience I can say that they are VERY uneasy about oxygen. But I never had any problems with other pressurized containers in the luggage.
Thanks Frank. Its bug spray/repellent that we want to take but if its going to be a problem/issue, it will stay home. I just don't want it to explode (or would it be implode???) in my suitcase somewhere over Virginia.

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby 3WE » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:20 pm

From my personal experience I can say that they are VERY uneasy about oxygen. But I never had any problems with other pressurized containers in the luggage.
Thanks Frank. Its bug spray/repellent that we want to take but if its going to be a problem/issue, it will stay home. I just don't want it to explode (or would it be implode???) in my suitcase somewhere over Virginia.
why would it? if im not mistaken the cargo holds are part of the pressurized vessel....
Most interiors are only pressurized to ~8000 ft.

Probably not a significant issue to a sturdy aerosol can, but

1) That is not all that significantly more pressurized than the outside (I think airliners reach about an 8PSI pressure differential vs. 16 PSI gross atmospheric pressure.

2) It can be quite significant when that 8000 ft cabin altitude "sucks" shampoo out and all over your clothes.

Bottom lines here: 1) the cargo hold is not pressurized to sea level and 2, the pressurization is not neccesarily significant, except for the human 02 assimilation system, or if a window blows ;-)
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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby Dmmoore » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:27 pm

Bottom lines here: 1) the cargo hold is not pressurized to sea level and 2, the pressurization is not neccesarily significant, except for the human 02 assimilation system, or if a window blows ;-)
I'm not sure where you are going with this but the entire aircraft is pressurized to the same level, There is no difference in pressurization between the cargo pit and the cockpit. :mrgreen:
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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby ZeroAltitude » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:40 pm

Slightly off-topic here:

Years ago, I heard about a problem that arose when some special candy produced in Germany:
http://www.dickmanns.de/content/ (Bottom is a waffle, has a thin chocolate skin and a cream filling - hmmmmm) had to be transported from Germany to Italy.
Normally, they would be sent by train - no problem.
On that occasion, for some reason they had to send them by truck.

At the destination in Italy, they found that each and every one had burst and spilled the cream.

Reason: The trains go through Switzerland and take the St. Gotthard tunnel.

The trucks went either over the Brenner pass or the St. Gotthard pass, about 6000 ft high (that was before the Gotthard Autobahn was opened).
The reduced air pressure at that height made the cream pop out.
space intentionally left blank

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3WE
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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby 3WE » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:06 am

Bottom lines here: 1) the cargo hold is not pressurized to sea level and 2, the pressurization is not neccesarily significant, except for the human 02 assimilation system, or if a window blows ;-)
I'm not sure where you are going with this but the entire aircraft is pressurized to the same level, There is no difference in pressurization between the cargo pit and the cockpit. :mrgreen:
You may change number 1 to say "The entire aircraft isn't pressurized to sea level, but to a reduced pressure and therefore your bug spray in the cargo hold will be subjected to reduced pressure, and therefore "stressed" a little bit more than at sea level due to the relative pressure difference.

I doubt it would threaten a standard, sturdy aerosol can, but if your shampoo wasn't shut tightly, you might wind up with it on your favorite clothes. That could be a total air disaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen:
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby AndyToop » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:11 pm

That could be a total hair disaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen:
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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby PurduePilot » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:21 pm

I once wound up with an entire bottle of after-shave soaking all of my clothes. I think the pressure popped the cap off. Fortunately that was on the trip home, so I didn't smell like a medicine cabinet all week in Cancun. As far as aerosol cans, I wouldn't worry about it. Standard sea level pressure is 14.7 PSIA. 8000 foot cabin altitude is going to be probably like 11 PSIA. I'm gonna guess that your shaving cream is pressurized to about 50psi. A couple more pounds isn't going to hurt anything.

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby 3WE » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:31 pm

There is no difference in pressurization between the cargo pit and the cockpit. :mrgreen:
Even with ITS and/or Flyboy in the cockpit?

I would assume they eminate significantly higher pressure from their presence?

:mrgreen:
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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby Gabriel » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:35 pm

I once wound up with an entire bottle of after-shave soaking all of my clothes. I think the pressure popped the cap off. Fortunately that was on the trip home, so I didn't smell like a medicine cabinet all week in Cancun. As far as aerosol cans, I wouldn't worry about it. Standard sea level pressure is 14.7 PSIA. 8000 foot cabin altitude is going to be probably like 11 PSIA. I'm gonna guess that your shaving cream is pressurized to about 50psi. A couple more pounds isn't going to hurt anything.
And at 41000ft of cabin altitude? You know, in case of a sudden depressurization.

How dangerous would be an aerosol can exploding in an aircraft (cargo compartment)?

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby PurduePilot » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:48 pm

I once wound up with an entire bottle of after-shave soaking all of my clothes. I think the pressure popped the cap off. Fortunately that was on the trip home, so I didn't smell like a medicine cabinet all week in Cancun. As far as aerosol cans, I wouldn't worry about it. Standard sea level pressure is 14.7 PSIA. 8000 foot cabin altitude is going to be probably like 11 PSIA. I'm gonna guess that your shaving cream is pressurized to about 50psi. A couple more pounds isn't going to hurt anything.
And at 41000ft of cabin altitude? You know, in case of a sudden depressurization.

How dangerous would be an aerosol can exploding in an aircraft (cargo compartment)?
It'd have to go through your clothes, your suitcase, and the floor (or fuselage skin). I don't think they'd turn into shrapnel, but even if they did, those cans are so thin the shrapnel would not have much mass and probably wouldn't go very far or through very much. Also, there still would not be very much change in the pressure differential (inside the can compared to outside the can).

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby PurduePilot » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:53 pm

Google and you shall receive:

http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/tech ... 97-103.pdf


I'm too tired to read through the whole thing, but it looks like your typical garden variety can can withstand up to 200 or so PSI. I highly doubt a change of 10 psi or so in the ambient atmosphere will have any effect. Your real concern is a FIRE in the cargo hold. The only time these cans explode is when they're physically damaged or overheated.

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby 3WE » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:11 pm

Google and you shall receive:

http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/tech ... 97-103.pdf


I'm too tired to read through the whole thing, but it looks like your typical garden variety can can withstand up to 200 or so PSI. I highly doubt a change of 10 psi or so in the ambient atmosphere will have any effect. Your real concern is a FIRE in the cargo hold. The only time these cans explode is when they're physically damaged or overheated.
Concur

Go to outer space with 0.0 PSI and explosively depressurize from 14.7 psi/29.92 in hg/1013 mb, and I bet a beer the bug spray will be fine....15 PSI is not significant to a good thick aerosol can.

Opening that beer would probably be a bad idea though...the CO2 might come out of solution faster than generally preferred.

And as has been pointed out repeatedly, a real depressurization is from ~8000 ft to ~35000 feet so the pressure difference is somewhat less than 15 PSI.....The danger from the shampoo or after shave.....serious!
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby sindeewell » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:49 am

OK gang...in plain ol' English, it looks like a can of garden variety bug repellent will NOT explode all over my wardrobe packed away in the cargo hold right? Thanks for your (incredibly interesting) insight!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming ~ WOW, what a ride~!!!

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby Giles » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:17 am

OK gang...in plain ol' English, it looks like a can of garden variety bug repellent will NOT explode all over my wardrobe packed away in the cargo hold right?
Correct

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby sindeewell » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:26 am

OK gang...in plain ol' English, it looks like a can of garden variety bug repellent will NOT explode all over my wardrobe packed away in the cargo hold right?
Correct
Thanks Giles...I know I can always count on you :lol:
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming ~ WOW, what a ride~!!!

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby Giles » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:14 am

OK gang...in plain ol' English, it looks like a can of garden variety bug repellent will NOT explode all over my wardrobe packed away in the cargo hold right?
Correct
Thanks Giles...I know I can always count on you :lol:
Now enjoy your trip. Thats an order!

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Re: Question regarding baggage

Postby sindeewell » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:28 am

Now enjoy your trip. Thats an order!
HEY>...I thought I was the Mistress around here?? :lol:
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