Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

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rattler
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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby rattler » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:27 pm

-snip-... I especially enjoyed the last sentence in Gabriel's typically lengthy post. Nothing like trying to show off one's mastery of idiomatic expressions only to miss it by a mile....
Indeed. Can you repeat this in Spanish, please?

From my POV you are not heavy on the wire: My idiomatic English abilities make you stand your hair to mountain, so it would be more preferent for me to hear you shout into the woods giving the face with eggs in a mode which would allow us *all* to give us an account, speaking native English or not.

Please?

(Of course, if you cannot, please kindly admit defeat, bow to superiority and close your head at its bottom in this respect in the future).

My 2 (Spanish) cents,

Rattler
Sincere condolences to all Norwegians! I guess you will need some aquevit to get over this.

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:43 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11895106

Australian air safety investigators say it was a "manufacturing fault" which, if true, should be easier to fix than a design fault.

Though for the passenger watching a blazing engine through the window this distinction may not provide a great deal of solace. ;)
......never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. – John Donne

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J
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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby J » Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:38 pm

Shortly after a Qantas Airways Ltd. superjumbo jet suffered an engine blowout at 7,000 feet near Singapore last month, the pilots faced initial warnings of potential difficulties with two other engines, multiple electrical failures and problems with various flight-control and fuel systems, according to a report issued by Australian accident investigators.

The preliminary findings announced by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau describe a cockpit drama in which the pilots confronted more serious damage to the double-decker Airbus A380—and scrambled as a team to deal with a wider array of cascading, computerized warnings than previously disclosed.

The report depicts the pilots methodically assessing whether the crippled, four-engine jetliner could be controlled during descent and a heavier-than-normal landing, even with fuel spewing out of the left wing, some control panels possibly damaged on both wings and the crew unable to dump fuel.

The report provides new details about the sequence of events, including the fact that cockpit instruments quickly indicated something was wrong with sensors on two other engines immediately after the failed engine spewed out flames and a stream of metal parts. The pilots decided to circle in a holding pattern for 50 minutes while they figured out an approach and landing strategy. The 53-page description of the incident also indicates, for the first time, that the A380's autopilot system disengaged on its own shortly before touchdown and the captain had to manually land the jet.

Australia's air-safety watchdogs, as expected, identified a problem with oil pipes in the Rolls-Royce Group PLC Trent 900 engines as the most likely cause of an engine explosion that forced the A380 to circle back and make an emergency landing in early November in Singapore. Nobody was hurt, but the high-profile incident attracted global attention and shined the spotlight on issues related to engine reliability and the safety of highly automated aircraft when electrical or computer systems are disrupted.

The bureau's report about the incident, which has prompted widespread disruption of Qantas's flight operations and that of other A380 operators, is preliminary. Since the plane's manufacturer, Airbus, a unit of European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co., Rolls-Royce and European regulators previously unveiled a combination of enhanced inspections and engine replacements, the report wasn't expected to provide new details about how airlines will deal with the issue.

"We're still in the early stages of investigation but significant action has already been taken to minimize the risk of a recurrence," said the bureau's chief commissioner, Martin Dolan.

Qantas, which grounded its fleet of A380s for more than three weeks, has said it would seek compensation from Rolls-Royce for the fallout from the engine malfunction. It announced steps Thursday that are likely to lead to court action if a settlement can't be reached.

Early reports about the Nov. 4 A380 incident stressed that shrapnel exploded from the Rolls-Royce engine, ripping fuel lines and crippling crucial hydraulic-control systems. Aviation safety experts early on talked about the dangers of maneuvering and landing a superjumbo without the ability to transfer or dump fuel.

But the report highlights how all five pilots on the flight deck—believed to have roughly 60,000 hours of combined flight experience—acted in unison to cope with hazards they never expected and never trained to overcome.

"The aircraft wouldn't have arrived safely in Singapore without the focus and effective action of the flight crew," Mr. Dolan told reporters.

The preliminary conclusions underscore how quickly and violently a disc inside the left-side engine closest to the fuselage broke apart, sending three chunks through cables, severing hydraulic lines and blasting through structural parts.

Investigators also described how at the start of the emergency—when the most junior pilot was sent into the cabin to try to visually gauge the extent of damage—the captain apparently didn't realize the seriousness of the fuel leak.

The report indicates that a passenger, who also happened to be a Qantas pilot, was the first to alert the crew by pointing out that a tail-mounted camera showed "some form of fluid leak from the left wing." The pictures were shown on the jet's in-flight entertainment screens.

According to data retrieved by investigators, the first sign of trouble occurred barely four minutes after the plane carrying 469 people lifted off from Singapore's Changi Airport on a clear day. Climbing through 5,300 feet with jets operating at 87% thrust, the No. 2 engine's oil temperature was climbing, but its oil pressure was dropping.

Within 30 seconds, according to the investigators, engine vibrations increased. Roughly 10 seconds after that, sensors showed the engine overheating and the turbine disc failing, immediately touching off multiple "fault indications."

When the jetliner's gear smacked the runway at an unusually high speed, according to the report, the pilots realized they had to deal with degraded braking systems and "limited nose wheel steering." The crew felt that "deceleration appeared to be 'slow' in the initial landing roll," the report states. But manual braking stopped the aircraft about 450 yards from the end of the strip. While circling for the approach, the pilots calculated that if everything went as planned, they would end up with as little as 300 yards to spare.

But that wasn't the end of the drama, or fire dangers, for passengers. The pilots weren't able to shut down the engine next to the one that blew apart because its controls were damaged by flying metal. The engine continued to run despite the crew's use of emergency switches and fire extinguishers, according to the report.

Cockpit displays also showed that the temperature of some brakes on the left-side main landing gear had reached 900 degrees Centigrade, and fuel continued to leak on that side of the aircraft. It took almost an hour before the captain and fire crews decided it was safe to have passengers leave by walking down stairs brought to the other side of the plane.

After landing, the pilots and Qantas engineers struggled for about two hours to shut down the engine. Emergency crews finally succeeded by drowning it with fire-retardant foam.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 68508.html

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby PurduePilot » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:59 pm

The report indicates that a passenger, who also happened to be a Qantas pilot, was the first to alert the crew by pointing out that a tail-mounted camera showed "some form of fluid leak from the left wing." The pictures were shown on the jet's in-flight entertainment screens.
Image

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby flyboy2548m » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:25 pm

Shortly after a Qantas Airways Ltd. superjumbo jet suffered an engine blowout at 7,000 feet near Singapore last month, the pilots faced initial warnings of potential difficulties with two other engines, multiple electrical failures and problems with various flight-control and fuel systems, according to a report issued by Australian accident investigators.

-snip-...a report basically indicating the POS was fixing to fall apart in midair...-snip-

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 68508.html
This is just getting better and better.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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Procede
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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby Procede » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:52 pm

Shortly after a Qantas Airways Ltd. superjumbo jet suffered an engine blowout at 7,000 feet near Singapore last month, the pilots faced initial warnings of potential difficulties with two other engines, multiple electrical failures and problems with various flight-control and fuel systems, according to a report issued by Australian accident investigators.

-snip-...a report basically indicating the POS was fixing to fall apart in midair...-snip-

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 68508.html
This is just getting better and better.
I read on pprune about engines 1 and 4 being in degraded mode. It seemed to me that the FBW system augments the throttle control of these engines to limit asymmetric thrust and thus yaw.

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby GlennAB1 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:35 pm

The report indicates that a passenger, who also happened to be a Qantas pilot, was the first to alert the crew by pointing out that a tail-mounted camera showed "some form of fluid leak from the left wing." The pictures were shown on the jet's in-flight entertainment screens.
Image
That would be entertainment.....
you still have to find a crew willing to fly this "barely airworthy" heap
no such thing as "barely airworthy" it's either Airworthy or Not
100% incorrect Ever hear of Ferry Permit? issued for Non airworthy aircraft
LOL

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby B77W-QOTS » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:15 pm

Funny Flying high was on TV here in OZ last night (followed by naked gun) as they had a Leslie Neilson tribute :clap:
"We are running an airline not a circus," - Qantas spokeswoman

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Gabriel
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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby Gabriel » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:31 pm

Very complete report, including the initial findings of the investigation.
http://avherald.com/h?article=43309c6d&opt=0

Whithin the bad luck, they were extremely lucky.

As an example, they nearly got a few passengers pierced.
Image

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby flyboy2548m » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:34 pm

I read on pprune about engines 1 and 4 being in degraded mode. It seemed to me that the FBW system augments the throttle control of these engines to limit asymmetric thrust and thus yaw.
Gosh, I hope not. Nothing like having to go around on three engines, two of which are "degraded".
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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3WE
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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby 3WE » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:06 pm

I read on pprune about engines 1 and 4 being in degraded mode. It seemed to me that the FBW system augments the throttle control of these engines to limit asymmetric thrust and thus yaw.
Gosh, I hope not. Nothing like having to go around on three engines, two of which are "degraded".
Nevertheless, I'd prefer YOU telling those two engines what to do and not the Jaques 9000 computer.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby PurduePilot » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:01 am

Shortly after a Qantas Airways Ltd. superjumbo jet suffered an engine blowout at 7,000 feet near Singapore last month, the pilots faced initial warnings of potential difficulties with two other engines, multiple electrical failures and problems with various flight-control and fuel systems, according to a report issued by Australian accident investigators.

-snip-...a report basically indicating the POS was fixing to fall apart in midair...-snip-

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 68508.html
This is just getting better and better.
I read on pprune about engines 1 and 4 being in degraded mode. It seemed to me that the FBW system augments the throttle control of these engines to limit asymmetric thrust and thus yaw.
Perhaps in an effort to reduce the size of the vertical tail in order to help reduce the over-budget weight of the airplane...

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Procede
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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby Procede » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:17 am

I read on pprune about engines 1 and 4 being in degraded mode. It seemed to me that the FBW system augments the throttle control of these engines to limit asymmetric thrust and thus yaw.
Gosh, I hope not. Nothing like having to go around on three engines, two of which are "degraded".
Nevertheless, I'd prefer YOU telling those two engines what to do and not the Jaques 9000 computer.
I'm sure they will do whatever the pilot (or auto- throttle) says, as long as the thrust on no.1 engine remains equal to or higher than the thrust on number 4.

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby GlennAB1 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:27 am

When control of #1 engine was lost it reverted to "degraded" mode, probably the equivalent of "Flight Idle" on a lot of aircraft. In response, #4 engine was also commanded to degraded mode to maintain symmetry. Degraded mode is probably adequate to maintain flight, even a rate of climb.
you still have to find a crew willing to fly this "barely airworthy" heap
no such thing as "barely airworthy" it's either Airworthy or Not
100% incorrect Ever hear of Ferry Permit? issued for Non airworthy aircraft
LOL

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby Giles » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:30 pm

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Last edited by Giles on Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby Giles » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:31 pm

http://www.aerosocietychannel.com/aeros ... e-cockpit/

Interview with the one of the pilots.

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby flyboy2548m » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:36 pm

When control of #1 engine was lost it reverted to "degraded" mode, probably the equivalent of "Flight Idle" on a lot of aircraft. In response, #4 engine was also commanded to degraded mode to maintain symmetry. Degraded mode is probably adequate to maintain flight, even a rate of climb.
I'm sorry, Glenn, are you suggesting the A380 can maintain a rate of climb with only one engine at anything above idle?
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

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Giles
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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby Giles » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:59 pm

From the interview given by one of the pilots, control of #1 engine was not lost during flight.

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby flyboy2548m » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:00 pm

From the interview given by one of the pilots, control of #1 engine was not lost during flight.
So, why couldn't they shut it down?
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

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Giles
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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby Giles » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:02 pm

From the interview given by one of the pilots, control of #1 engine was not lost during flight.
So, why couldn't they shut it down?
Probably because of the wiring damage?

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby GlennAB1 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:42 pm

When control of #1 engine was lost it reverted to "degraded" mode, probably the equivalent of "Flight Idle" on a lot of aircraft. In response, #4 engine was also commanded to degraded mode to maintain symmetry. Degraded mode is probably adequate to maintain flight, even a rate of climb.
I'm sorry, Glenn, are you suggesting the A380 can maintain a rate of climb with only one engine at anything above idle?
We know you are. Maintaining a rate of climb verses attaining a rate of climb for a go around differ, you know that and are just being an Ik. My reference was for two engines at 'flight idle' and one engine making full power. Do you know what "flight idle" is? What type do you fly again?
you still have to find a crew willing to fly this "barely airworthy" heap
no such thing as "barely airworthy" it's either Airworthy or Not
100% incorrect Ever hear of Ferry Permit? issued for Non airworthy aircraft
LOL

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby flyboy2548m » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:22 pm

When control of #1 engine was lost it reverted to "degraded" mode, probably the equivalent of "Flight Idle" on a lot of aircraft. In response, #4 engine was also commanded to degraded mode to maintain symmetry. Degraded mode is probably adequate to maintain flight, even a rate of climb.
I'm sorry, Glenn, are you suggesting the A380 can maintain a rate of climb with only one engine at anything above idle?
We know you are. Maintaining a rate of climb verses attaining a rate of climb for a go around differ, you know that and are just being an Ik. My reference was for two engines at 'flight idle' and one engine making full power. Do you know what "flight idle" is? What type do you fly again?
Try again, Glenn. Better yet, get back to your ferry permits.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby Giles » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:03 am

When control of #1 engine was lost it reverted to "degraded" mode, probably the equivalent of "Flight Idle" on a lot of aircraft. In response, #4 engine was also commanded to degraded mode to maintain symmetry.
No.

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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby IntheShade » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:44 am

When control of #1 engine was lost it reverted to "degraded" mode, probably the equivalent of "Flight Idle" on a lot of aircraft. In response, #4 engine was also commanded to degraded mode to maintain symmetry. Degraded mode is probably adequate to maintain flight, even a rate of climb.
Once again the ramblings of an idiot.

He is also wrong about ferry permits.

I am certain this will launch him into another tirade.
Aviation Pilot, Author, Genius

GlennAB1
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Re: Qantas A380 emergency landing in SIN

Postby GlennAB1 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:17 am

Wrong Chaz.
you still have to find a crew willing to fly this "barely airworthy" heap
no such thing as "barely airworthy" it's either Airworthy or Not
100% incorrect Ever hear of Ferry Permit? issued for Non airworthy aircraft
LOL


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