787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

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Ancient Mariner
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Ancient Mariner » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:28 am

Sorry to put it this way but the world will be a better place when the baby boomers are gone. f***ing stupidity is mind boggling.
And the meek shall inherit the earth. Good luck to you.
Per

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reubee
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby reubee » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:05 am

Back on topic. So when I am at FL390 over the Pacific Ocean near the ETOPS180 point, and the battery has its event in its compartment, what is going to happen?
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Gabriel
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Gabriel » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:01 am

Back on topic. So when I am at FL390 over the Pacific Ocean near the ETOPS180 point, and the battery has its event in its compartment, what is going to happen?
Nothing different than when it happens on the ground.
The battery is not used in flight except as a last resource back-up if you loose all electric power in flight, to supply a few seconds of essential electric power until the APU or RAT is started. And there is another battery that serves this same function too.

That is not to say that it's acceptable that individual cells or full batteries fail every one and then, except if "every one and then" is really very very rare.

It is important to note that:
- There was no fire in this event.
- Battery failures (and even fires) are not unheard off, even beyond the 787 and beyond the LiMH batteries (for example, the NiCd batteries also fail from time to time and even had a few fire events).

However, given the antecedents of the 787 and its batteries, and the small fleet and small number of flights hours accumulated by it, I say that this problem must be monitored very closely and I'm sure that Boeing is very nervous and putting a lot of resources to analyze this last event (despite keeping a "low profile").

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby 3WE » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:37 pm

Sorry to put it this way but the world will be a better place when the baby boomers are gone. f***ing stupidity is mind boggling.
This is quite the tidbit...

Old farts talk about the olden days when they would choose a heavier, lower capacity battery that didn't burn up laptop computers and planes were flown by pilots cranking wheels that pull cables that run down metallic wings and move flap surfaces- with no computer in the middle waiting to over rule the pilots at the wrong time because no one wrote computer code for this situation.

Now, bring on the young guy, telling them to f-this and f-that and f speculation that a battery that burned up before might burn up again, and tell them that it's all ok because he used his CAD design software and simulation models and modern engineering to make it safe.

The same, slick, fast-talking f-the-old-way shit that said that the o-rings on the space shuttle were ok and that "I've been pulling up the whole time"...
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby flyboy2548m » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:02 pm

The same, slick, fast-talking f-the-old-way shit that said that the o-rings on the space shuttle were ok and that "I've been pulling up the whole time"...
3BS, you couldn't tell the Space Shuttle if it fell on you and crushed your thick head. Good God, have you not done enough talking about things you haven't the foggiest about?
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby flyboy2548m » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:02 pm

Sorry to put it this way but the world will be a better place when the baby boomers are gone. f***ing stupidity is mind boggling.
If they all just retired, that would be a start.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Ancient Mariner » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:43 pm

The same, slick, fast-talking f-the-old-way shit that said that the o-rings on the space shuttle were ok and that "I've been pulling up the whole time"...
3BS, you couldn't tell the Space Shuttle if it fell on you and crushed your thick head. Good God, have you not done enough talking about things you haven't the foggiest about?
Was the faulty O-ring actually on the space shuttle?
Per

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Ancient Mariner » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:45 pm

Sorry to put it this way but the world will be a better place when the baby boomers are gone. f***ing stupidity is mind boggling.
If they all just retired, that would be a start.
We will, and with good pensions and money in the bank. You will need someone on the seniority list to retire to enjoy it.
Per

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby 3WE » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:38 pm

Good God, have you not done enough talking about things you haven't the foggiest about?
Just what the hell do you think this forum is for?

I respectfully avoid PPRUNE so you and your freinds who know what they are talking about can be free from such distractions.

And, I dunno, I think Bradley might be a bit overly dismissive when Per suggests that Lithium batteries seem to get really hot on occasion...and think that the Japanese culture of respecting old folks is at least part of the reason my Toyota is at 200,000 miles with the primary concerns being a worn out key and no place to plug in an I-Pod.
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Not_Karl » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:55 pm

Back on topic. So when I am at FL390 over the Pacific Ocean near the ETOPS180 point, and the battery has its event in its compartment, what is going to happen?
Burn, stall, spin, break-up, blame Verbie, Purduie and Americans in general, crash, drown, did died. Not necessarily in that order.
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby flyboy2548m » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:51 pm

..and think that the Japanese culture of respecting old folks is at least part of the reason my Toyota is at 200,000 miles with the primary concerns being a worn out key and no place to plug in an I-Pod.
Which Toyota is that, the one designed in California and built in Kentucky?
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby flyboy2548m » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:52 pm

We will, and with good pensions and money in the bank. You will need someone on the seniority list to retire to enjoy it.
Per
Good. Don't let the proverbial door hit you.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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Ancient Mariner
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Ancient Mariner » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:15 pm

We will, and with good pensions and money in the bank. You will need someone on the seniority list to retire to enjoy it.
Per
Good. Don't let the proverbial door hit you.
Not a chance, I'm way to agile. :twisted:
Per

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby 3WE » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:17 am

..and think that the Japanese culture of respecting old folks is at least part of the reason my Toyota is at 200,000 miles with the primary concerns being a worn out key and no place to plug in an I-Pod.
Which Toyota is that, the one designed in California and built in Kentucky?
Good one...

...but don't try to tell me that GM and Toyota have similar cultural influences. Your president only had to bail out one of them.
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:23 am

The same, slick, fast-talking f-the-old-way shit that said that the o-rings on the space shuttle were ok and that "I've been pulling up the whole time"...
3BS, you couldn't tell the Space Shuttle if it fell on you and crushed your thick head. Good God, have you not done enough talking about things you haven't the foggiest about?
Was the faulty O-ring actually on the space shuttle?
Per
Nope, it was on a solid-fuel booster.
....and it wasn't faulty....just used outside its design envelope.
......never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. – John Donne

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby 3WE » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:14 pm

Nope, it was on a solid-fuel booster.
....and it wasn't faulty....just used outside its design envelope.
Concern: With cold temperatures the rubber may be too hard and not seal properly, allowing gas to burn through, potentially igniting the external fuel tank and leading to a catastrophic failure.

Decision: The cold, hard rubber does not present a significant risk.

Conclusion: Wrong.

Concern: After a fairly significant number of overheated battery events, over a relaively short amount of time, could one of these battery events (fire) cause significant damage or fire on board the aircraft and leading to a catastrophic failure.

Caveat: Even with a heat sheild, a recent battery event burnt the paint off the outside of the plane...

Decision: The batteries do not present a significant risk.

Conclusion: Pending...
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Gabriel » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:57 pm

Caveat: Even with a heat sheild, a recent battery event burnt the paint off the outside of the plane...
Not with the current shield, but yes, I agree with your line of thought.

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby flyboy2548m » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:17 pm

...but don't try to tell me that GM and Toyota have similar cultural influences. Your president only had to bail out one of them.
Why not, it's OK for you to talk out your ass for decades...?
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby 3WE » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:17 pm

...but don't try to tell me that GM and Toyota have similar cultural influences. Your president only had to bail out one of them.
Why not, it's OK for you to talk out your ass for decades...?
Indeed...

...as is your much-loved, harsh correctness.
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby flyboy2548m » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:31 pm

...as is your much-loved, harsh correctness.
Which would point out that "my" president also didn't bail out that other Japanese outfit based in Dearborn, MI.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby PurduePilot » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:56 pm

Sorry to put it this way but the world will be a better place when the baby boomers are gone. f***ing stupidity is mind boggling.
This is quite the tidbit...

Old farts talk about the olden days when they would choose a heavier, lower capacity battery that didn't burn up laptop computers and planes were flown by pilots cranking wheels that pull cables that run down metallic wings and move flap surfaces- with no computer in the middle waiting to over rule the pilots at the wrong time because no one wrote computer code for this situation.

Now, bring on the young guy, telling them to f-this and f-that and f speculation that a battery that burned up before might burn up again, and tell them that it's all ok because he used his CAD design software and simulation models and modern engineering to make it safe.

The same, slick, fast-talking f-the-old-way shit that said that the o-rings on the space shuttle were ok and that "I've been pulling up the whole time"...
This right here tells me you really do have no idea what you are talking about... So sad: Ike was right.

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby PurduePilot » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:59 pm

Caveat: Even with a heat sheild, a recent battery event burnt the paint off the outside of the plane...
Source?

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Not_Karl » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:54 pm

Caveat: Even with a heat sheild, a recent battery event burnt the paint off the outside of the plane...
Source?
I think he may be talking about Ethiopian's -unrelated, as I understand- ELT battery fire. Sorry if that's not the case.
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby GlennAB1 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:45 am

Sorry to put it this way but the world will be a better place when the baby boomers are gone. f***ing stupidity is mind boggling.
Listen Boilerpuss, you're not the first generation to think they are smarter than the previous... Why is it I have to fix everything for all the younger people I know... Oh, they can all take care of their computers, but, a washing machine, a dryer, a refrigerator, water heater, furnace, automobile brakes, water pump, you name it, no one younger I know works on anything.... wtf are they all going to do when I die?
you still have to find a crew willing to fly this "barely airworthy" heap
no such thing as "barely airworthy" it's either Airworthy or Not
100% incorrect Ever hear of Ferry Permit? issued for Non airworthy aircraft
LOL

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby PurduePilot » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:52 pm

Sorry to put it this way but the world will be a better place when the baby boomers are gone. f***ing stupidity is mind boggling.
Listen Boilerpuss, you're not the first generation to think they are smarter than the previous... Why is it I have to fix everything for all the younger people I know... Oh, they can all take care of their computers, but, a washing machine, a dryer, a refrigerator, water heater, furnace, automobile brakes, water pump, you name it, no one younger I know works on anything.... wtf are they all going to do when I die?
I fix everything that I have the means to fix: I change parts on my cars if it can be done in my garage, I re-wire my house, fix my appliances, and yes I build my own computers.

Question: without people hiring you to fix stuff, would you have an alternative income? You seem resentful for customers.

My comment about the baby boomer generation was overly generalizing and overly harsh but I do find that the older generation has a tragic tendency (and ability) to ignore inconvenient facts about the world.


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