787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

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PurduePilot
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby PurduePilot » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:25 pm

What It Takes to Fly the 787 at the Paris Air Show

LE BOURGET, France — The Boeing 787 Dreamliner isn’t like the highly maneuverable, super-sleek planes demonstrating their skills at this week’s Paris Air Show. It’s big. It’s heavy. And it’s a passenger jet, after all. But that hasn’t stopped Boeing from showing off its newest airplane to the assembled masses gathered at the Le Bourget airport.

Although the flights aren’t as jaw-dropping as Boeing test pilot Tex Johnston’s barrel roll in a 707 in Seattle back in 1955, it’s still an impressive flight routine for an airliner. So how are they doing it? We asked the two pilots responsible for giving the aviation geeks on the ground a good show.

* * *

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/06/te ... -air-show/
Mike Bryan also flew last year's 787 demonstration at Farnborough. He's a pretty cool guy that I've met a few times and was nice enough to give me a narration through this youtube clip while we had some downtime: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmqLsEhoOzY

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Not_Karl » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:34 am

Yep, let's just ground every airplane in the world.
Concur! With no more flights there will be no more total air disasters :D.

There is going to be a super exciting demonstration of paint drying!
If the paint is from a new livery, super exciting indeed!
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J
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby J » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:43 pm

Heathrow shut after Boeing Dreamliner 787 fire
Excerpt

Pictures of the Heathrow fire on Twitter show an aircraft close to a terminal building surrounded by fire vehicles. London Fire Brigade said its crews were standing by to assist Heathrow staff.

A Heathrow spokesman said: "We can confirm there has been an on-board internal fire involving an Ethiopian Airlines aircraft and the airport's emergency services are in attendance.

"The aircraft was parked on a remote parking stand. There were no passengers on board and there are no reported injuries at this time.

"Arrivals and departures are temporarily suspended while airport fire crews attend to this incident. This is a standard procedure if fire crews are occupied with an incident."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23294760

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Sickbag
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Sickbag » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:51 pm

So I have written, so it becomes.
Sometime I feel godlike in my prescience.
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3WE
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby 3WE » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:16 pm

...and on this same day, another 787 is 'forced to return' due to a 'technical problem'.

I blame ITS because...

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Sir Gallivant
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Sir Gallivant » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:54 pm

This is not exactly good for the image of the 787, is it?
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monchavo
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby monchavo » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:08 pm

This is not exactly good for the image of the 787, is it?
It's not catastrophic, but make no bones about it, it is a significant event which will have senior management clapping their hands to their faces and furrows deepening. I am just so grateful this hasn't happened during flight -_-
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J
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby J » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:36 pm

Video of plane at gate with fire retardant foam.

Comments are interesting too:
"Gotta love lithium ion. It is the HOTTEST tech right now. Battery stocks are on fire."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fdQXBB8pc0

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:06 pm

This video seems to show fire damage to the top of the fuselage just in front of the fin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23295115
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Sickbag
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Sickbag » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:10 pm

I think Thompson's advertising department might be having nightmares. having based their marketing on the fact they fly 787s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msVAfdTvuks
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Sir Gallivant
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Sir Gallivant » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:20 pm

. I am just so grateful this hasn't happened during flight -_-
That could be the understatement of the day, sir, we really don't want the title of the thread fulfilled, now, do we?
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Marc 1 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:05 am

And.... pprune has crashed. Must be the stack of people posting "I told you so's..."

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monchavo
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby monchavo » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:30 am

I think Thompson's advertising department might be having nightmares. having based their marketing on the fact they fly 787s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msVAfdTvuks
And, beautifully, the fact that they charge a premium for it. :S
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monchavo
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby monchavo » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:40 am

. I am just so grateful this hasn't happened during flight -_-
That could be the understatement of the day, sir, we really don't want the title of the thread fulfilled, now, do we?

We really, really don't. Let's wait for the official explanation - but it would appear there is a huge potential for significant ramification here.
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby GlennAB1 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:43 am

I'm going to bet this fire was in the aft galley and didn't involve Li batteries.
you still have to find a crew willing to fly this "barely airworthy" heap
no such thing as "barely airworthy" it's either Airworthy or Not
100% incorrect Ever hear of Ferry Permit? issued for Non airworthy aircraft
LOL

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Gabriel
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Gabriel » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:44 am

I'm going to bet this fire was in the aft galley and didn't involve Li batteries.
I'm going to hope that too.

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby reubee » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:20 am

Where is turn the kettle off in the shutdown checklist?
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Ancient Mariner » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:45 am

I'm going to bet this fire was in the aft galley and didn't involve Li batteries.
I'm going to hope that too.
Why? Having two different (actually many more) technical issues would be better than just one? Not the way I see things.
Per

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monchavo
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby monchavo » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:14 pm

I'm going to bet this fire was in the aft galley and didn't involve Li batteries.
I'm going to hope that too.
Why? Having two different (actually many more) technical issues would be better than just one? Not the way I see things.
Per
Nah, cmon Per, even a layperson like me can see that's not the case. Look at it like this: A problem with the management of the batteries is identified, potentially resulting in a dangerous situation "thermal runaway... yadda yadda" - essentially a fire. NTSB grounds the planes, several airlines have a bunch of birds unusable, mumblings about loss of revenue etc etc, stock market value impact, reputational impact etc. Couple of months later "ok, it's pretty much fixed, you can fly again"... then a handful of weeks later - this. If it's the same issue as before there's a reaction of "wait, so you grounded the planes that long and all your engineering skill couldn't fix this fúckup? and you let it fly again??" - that's a damaging scenario. If it's something unrelated then it's something unrelated and as long as that is explained properly it won't have such a significant impact.
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monchavo
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby monchavo » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:16 pm

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby 3WE » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:31 pm

Where is turn the kettle off in the shutdown checklist?

Prelanding check...

...right between gear down and autothrottles TRULY set.
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby J » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:30 pm

Here is an interesting wrinkle:

Boeing's latest 787 fire poses major test of jet's carbon skin
Excerpt:

"* * * *the visible scorching on the top rear of the fuselage of the 250-seat plane puts a major innovation of the 787 - its lightweight, carbon-plastic composite construction - under a spotlight with a fresh set of questions around the plane that Boeing and investors had hoped were behind it.

The key question for both: can the burned plane be fixed easily and at a reasonable cost?

While composites have been used in aerospace for decades, the 787 is the first commercial jetliner built mainly from carbon-plastic materials, whose weight savings, combined with new engines, are supposed to slash fuel costs 20 percent and operating costs by 10 percent compared with traditional aluminum alloy."
* * *
"Such extensive composite repairs have not previously been performed on an operating commercial plane. So the Ethiopian Airline fire is the first chance airlines, financiers and competitors will have to see a real example of how and at what cost the repair can be done.

"Everyone in the industry is going to follow this closely," said Hans Weber, president of TECOP International and an aviation consultant who has worked on composite testing technology. "It's the ultimate test."

Carbon-composite technology and repair have been in use much longer than lithium-ion batteries. Boeing and others have had carbon fiber in military planes, such as the B2 Stealth Bomber, for more than 25 years.

The 787's composite skin can be patched by grinding out the damaged section, applying fresh layers of fiber and resin and then curing with heat under vacuum pressure, according to a Boeing engineer with knowledge of the process. The work can be done on site, and repair stations have been learning to make repairs to service the plane around the world.

But the true cost and complexity of repair remains a key question for industry, airlines and competitors. In developing its rival A350 plane, Airbus(EAD.PA) used composite panels that are bolted to a framework, much like aluminum planes are made, a technology it saw as less risky to build and service."
* * *
"Boeing could make a new piece of fuselage and attach it if the damaged area was not too large, said the Boeing engineer. In a worst case, the entire rear section of the fuselage could be replaced, Weber said, an expensive fix that might cost more than the plane is worth."
* * *
"Fires break out on parked planes about 60 times a year, and most are from "human error" such as leaving a circuit on or cigarette butt, Weber said. A fire on a different type of plane might have gone unreported. Britain's Air Accident Investigations Branch termed the 787 fire a "serious incident" and said the initial investigation was likely to take several days."



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/ ... 3620130715

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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Sickbag » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:16 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tment.html

Every day in every way its getting worse & worse:
Qatar Airways has pulled one of its Boeing 787 Dreamliners out of service following a 'minor' technical issue, as pressure mounted on Boeing over possible new electrical problems with the advanced jet.
Today, it was revealed that an oven overheated and caused smoke in an Air India Dreamliner this week. India's aviation regulator is investigating the incident, which did not interrupt services.
Qatar Airways and Boeing declined to give further details about the affected plane. Industry sources said it had been grounded for days after smoke was seen near an electrical panel.
According to tracking service Flightaware, the aircraft, registered as A7-BCB, has not flown since Sunday - an unusually long time for a long-haul jet designed to save on fuel bills.
Qatar Airways confirmed an aircraft had been taken out of service, but said no flights had been cancelled as a result.
"This is a minor issue for us, and not an incident, so we are not commenting," an airline spokesman said.
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:27 am

I'm going to bet this fire was in the aft galley and didn't involve Li batteries.
It seems it wasn't a galley fire......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23486472
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Re: 787 inflight structural breakup in 3....2....1....

Postby PurduePilot » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:58 pm

I'm going to bet this fire was in the aft galley and didn't involve Li batteries.
It seems it wasn't a galley fire......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23486472
Old news, unrelated to Sicko's post.


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