747-400BCF down in Afghanistan

[Verbal]

Crash: National Air Cargo B744 at Bagram on Apr 29th 2013, lost height shortly after takeoff

By Simon Hradecky, created Monday, Apr 29th 2013 14:02Z, last updated Monday, Apr 29th 2013 16:57Z

A National Air Cargo Boeing 747-400 freighter on behalf of US Mobility Command, registration N949CA performing cargo flight N8-102 from Bagram (Afghanistan) to Dubai Al Maktoum (United Arab Emirates) with 8 crew, has crashed shortly after takeoff from Bagram Air Base's runway 03 at 15:30L (11:00Z) and erupted into flames near the end of the runway with the perimeter of the Air Base. All 8 crew are reported perished in the crash.

Afghan Authorities immediately denied claims that the crash of a large civilian cargo aircraft was the result of enemy activities. A large fire erupted after the aircraft impacted ground, it appears all crew have been killed.

Coalition Forces reported a civilian large cargo planed crashed shortly after takeoff, at the time of the accident there was no enemy activity around the aerodrome. Rescue and Recovery efforts are under way, the Air Base is currently locked down and the aerodrome is closed.

National Air Cargo confirmed their aircraft N949CA with 8 crew crashed at Bagram.

Several observers on the ground reported the National Air Cargo Boeing 747-400 had just lifted off and was climbing through approximately 1200 feet when it's nose sharply rose, the aircraft appeared to have stalled and came down erupting in a blaze.

According to a listener on frequency the crew reported the aircraft stalled due to a possible load shift.

National Air Cargo operates three Boeing 747-400s with the registrations N952CA, N919CA and N949CA. N949CA operated into Afghanistan yesterday (Apr 28th).

http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4&opt=0

LN 960 was originally delivered to Air France in February 1993. It was converted for freighter use.

[3WE]

Large, heavy chunks of iron.

Inside of a light weight aluminum aircraft.

Accelerating and climbing, and pointing nose skyward all smartly.

Tied down with what?

[GlennAB1]

Very sad!

[Dummy Pilot]

I'm telling you, nothing happens in the world today without someone getting it on camera........

LIVELEAK Crash Footage

[GlennAB1]

Fnck.... didn't need to watch that.

[Dummy Pilot]

Copied from my post at Forum X:

BTW, if you pause at 00:22, you will note that the gear is still down. Whatever happened was so quick, attention grabbing and violent that they never even got the gear up.

[Verbal]

The airplane rolls left, then right. Left and right wings never stall at the exact same moment, so the airplane rolls to the side that stalls first. Pilot compensates with opposite roll. Then everything goes straight to hell.

[flyboy2548m]

Seems like Air France planes crash even after Air France is done with them.

[Dummy Pilot]

I can see flaps down, so it wasn't that....

Still amazed that the driver with the dash-cam didn't drop an F-bomb or at least a "holy sh1t"

[GlennAB1]

He did!

[monchavo]

Shocking, terrifying and compelling footage. Quite remarkable.

[Peminu]

For what I see, I have to agree that it is a stall and very probably due to a cargo movement.

What I don't agree is with the date of the video shown (2013.02.01?).

[Sir Gallivant]

The owner of the camera may not be aware that the date/time can be set.

[monchavo]

This aircraft is described as having been "wet leased" - could someone elucidate on the meaning of this term and the different between a "wet lease" and a "dry lease" - if such a thing exists?
Thanks!

[Procede]

This aircraft is described as having been "wet leased" - could someone elucidate on the meaning of this term and the different between a "wet lease" and a "dry lease" - if such a thing exists?
Thanks!

Wet lease: Lease including crew, maintenance and insurance. Usually operated under AOC of the Lessor.

There is also a damp and a moist lease: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_lease#Wet_lease

[monchavo]

Thank you for the clarification, I appreciate that. Are the NTSB heading to Bagram to sift through the wreckage?

[Verbal]

The NTSB's first priority will probably be to secure the FDR and CVR and send them for analysis.

[monchavo]

Assuming they can be found after such a roaster (!) they will tell us the control surface movements and the audio messages I assume (?). I guess I'm interested in understanding if, in the pile of smouldering steel and aluminium if the cargo shifted due to a structural failure, or simply through human error or some other factor (?)

[flyboy2548m]

The answer to your question is yes.

[3WE]

Assuming they can be found after such a roaster (!) they will tell us the control surface movements and the audio messages I assume (?). I guess I'm interested in understanding if, in the pile of smouldering steel and aluminium if the cargo shifted due to a structural failure, or simply through human error or some other factor (?)

The other website says that:

1) There were radio broadcasts that the load had shifted.
2) Radio broadcasts that they had stalled.
3) The video sure looks like that's what happened.

So, maybe the parlour talk that the load ight have shifted might have some chance of being correct.

Yes, I know...speculative and we should really wait for the final report.

[monchavo]

I apologise for a very muddy question. I was musing that given the mangled nature of the wreckage, I would be fascinated to understand the science behind the forensic techniques that can be used to determine BRD how a certain piece of metal became to be bent in such a way in the chain of events:

- IE a structural failure of say a mounting point caused the load shift, and setting off the chain reaction resulting in the destruction of the aircraft

[Gabriel]

The shift of the CG will be relatively easy to find out from the FDR data (if it survived). It will not be directly there as a recorder parameter but will enable the investigators to solve the equation of what CG gives a given longitudinal response (pitch, sped and altitude vs time as recorded in the CVR) given that the elevator, trim, flaps and thrust setting were the ones recorded in the FDR.

Then, from knowing what was in the plane and how it was distributed, it may be possible to tell what object(s) might have caused that shift, or to find a few possible scenarios.

As for what failed to let that load shift, well, depending on what they find in the wreckage, it could be evident or impossible to tell. For example, if you find an attachment point, a fastener, or whatever failing in the rear direction, that would be an indication of something that failed before the crash (as in the crash everything would go forward). Of course, if those items were plastic, fabric, or even aluminum, there will not be much to recover. Steel is more likely to have survived.

[Chris Foss]

I read somewhere (unreliable source) that they were carrying 3 x 27 tonne vehicles... guessing they were loaded through the nose on upper deck? Did this aircraft have a lifting nose?

Wondering about payload limits here: Seem to recall that max full width single pallet/container position load is about 3-4 tonnes for lower deck. Can't remember the upper deck limits, but they would have to spread the load evenly somehow. if they were big vehicles, even spread over 3-4 pallets, it seems like excessive single loads.

747 is a tough bird, but never heard of it carrying such dense objects before. Individual load limits must be relevant to floor and anchor points strength.

Again, if true, these vehicles seem better lifted by C-5, C-17 or some Rusky jobby.

Need enlightenment here please....

[Gabriel]

http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4&opt=0

On Jun 2nd 2013 accident investigators by the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation of Afghanistan reported in a press conference that quickly shifting cargo, consisting of three armored vehicles and two mine sweepers totalling at 80 tons of weight, caused the accident. The cargo slammed so hard at the back of the aircraft, that parts of the aircraft separated and wiring in the back was severed. As result of the shift and loss of aircraft parts the center of gravity moved so far back, that the attitude of the aircraft could no longer be controlled, the nose of the aircraft rose beyond the flying envelope of the aircraft and the aircraft stalled destroying the aircraft and killing all crew in the resulting impact. Parts of the aircraft, that separated as result of the initial load shift, were recovered from the runway. The straps used to tie down the cargo were recovered from the accident site, although charred they provided evidence of having fractured before final impact, it was unclear however, whether the fracture(s) had happened before or after takeoff.

[Chris Foss]

http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4&opt=0

On Jun 2nd 2013 accident investigators by the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation of Afghanistan reported in a press conference that quickly shifting cargo, consisting of three armored vehicles and two mine sweepers totalling at 80 tons of weight, caused the accident. The cargo slammed so hard at the back of the aircraft, that parts of the aircraft separated and wiring in the back was severed. As result of the shift and loss of aircraft parts the center of gravity moved so far back, that the attitude of the aircraft could no longer be controlled, the nose of the aircraft rose beyond the flying envelope of the aircraft and the aircraft stalled destroying the aircraft and killing all crew in the resulting impact. Parts of the aircraft, that separated as result of the initial load shift, were recovered from the runway. The straps used to tie down the cargo were recovered from the accident site, although charred they provided evidence of having fractured before final impact, it was unclear however, whether the fracture(s) had happened before or after takeoff.

Number of scenarios spring to mind:
- Strap failure was initiating event on one of the forward vehicles which hit the others causing subsequent strap failures. (Not sure if they are concluding that all vehicles shifted or some of, but it was at the very least the rear most for it to hit the back)
- Anchor point or vehicle attacccchment point failed on one of the lead vehicles causing it to run into the others and cause subsequent failures.

Horrible no hope situation for the pilots, but questions about strap rating and anchor point loadings have to be asked. I still have my concerns about the point loads of the floor and allowable single unit limits. Dusty memory seems to recal a single pallet/tin load of 3.5t on lower deck and 4.5 on upper per load position.
I'd still like to know whether these vehicles were loose loaded or strapped to pallet bases, I suspect the former. Seems wrong either way.