Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

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Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby J » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:14 pm

Excerpt:

The Boeing 777 was shot down at cruising altitude, according to Anton Gerashenko, an adviser to Ukraine's Interior Minister. He said it was carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew people, all of whom were killed. The incident touched off immediate finger-pointing between Russian separatists and the Ukrainian government, which strongly denied responsibility.


"The President of Ukraine on behalf of the State expresses its deepest and most sincere condolences to the families and relatives of those killed in this terrible tragedy," said a statement released by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko's office. "Every possible search and rescue effort is being made."

***

“Malaysia Airlines has lost contact of MH17 from Amsterdam," read a tweet from the airline. "The last known position was over Ukrainian airspace. More details to follow,” read a tweet from Malaysia Airlines’ account.

Gerashenko wrote on his Facebook page the plane was flying at an altitude of 33,000 feet when it was hit. The missile was believed to have been fired from a Russian Buk launcher. A similar launcher was seen by Associated Press journalists near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne earlier Thursday.

A Reuters correspondent near the scene reported seeing burning wreckage and bodies strewn across a nine-mile debris field. A Ukrainian Emergency official told the news agency body parts and at least 100 bodies were seen in the area.

The border area where the plane apparently went down, near the city of Kremenchuk, has been embroiled in the larger dispute between Ukraine and ethnic Russian separatists. Fighting has intensified in recent months in the region. A day before, according to the Ukrainian government, a Russian military plane shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet in Ukrainian airspace.

Eastern Ukraine separatist leader Alexander Borodai told Reuters that Ukrainian military forces shot the jet down, but Kiev denied involvement. KT McFarland, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense under President Ronald Reagan, and a Fox News national security analyst said it is most likely the attack was the work of Russian separatists, not the Russian or Ukrainian army.

“I think it’s far more likely it was rebel forces in eastern Ukraine trying to get the Russian back involved," McFarland said.
There was widespread speculation among defense experts that if the Russian separatists were responsible, they were likely targeting a military plane and downed a passenger jet by mistake.

Malaysian Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said he has directed the country’s Ministry of Defense to investigate the incident, according to a message on his Twitter account. He said he could not confirm that the plane was shot down.

Pentagon Spokesman Col. Steve Warren said he was aware of reports of the downed passenger jet in Ukraine,but did not have further information.

A senior White House official said President Obama has been briefed on the incident. Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, said whether it was intentional or accidental it is an "international incident" when a passenger jet is shot down. McCaul said he believed only a military grade weapon could have downed the plane.

The Boeing jets are equipped with twin Rolls-Royce Trent engines, typically cruises at 35,000 feet at speeds up to 639 miles per hour.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/17 ... n-ukraine/

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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby J » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:51 pm

Here is a more detailed report including photographs of the wreckage. On an audio tape an expert states that if this was a shoot down it would be unlikely the Ukrainian rebels would have sophisticated-enough weapons to catch a plane at flight altitude. At the same time, it would be surprising for the Ukrainian government to attack an aircraft as there is no significant air war in the area.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856

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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby flyboy2548m » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:07 pm

Paging Reverend Schlossberg! Reverend Schlossberg, you're urgently needed in the Aviation Safety Forum.
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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby Sickbag » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:35 pm

I blame Hamas.
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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby 3WE » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:12 am

There seems to be varied reports of whether they should have been flying there or not...an analysis of the decisions beforehand seems to be in order.
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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby J » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:26 pm

While this news source is not always reliable - it does make for interesting reading:


Smoking gun? Intercepted calls point finger at Russian separatists in jet downing


Intercepted phone calls purportedly between Russian military intelligence officers and members of a pro-Russian separatist group that appear to capture the moment the rebels realized the plane they shot down was a civilian passenger plane could be the smoking gun that helps prove Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was downed Ukraine by the insurgents.

The tapes were released by SBU, Ukraine's security agency, and transcript was published in the Kiev Post. It appears to capture the chaotic moments after the plane was shot down — and the realization that it was a passenger plane rather than a Ukrainian transport plane, which had been targeted in recent days by the Russia-backed separatists.

"We have just shot down a plane," says a man the SBU identified as Igor Bezler, a Russian military intelligence officer and leading commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic.

That call came just 20 minutes after the crash and was placed to a person identified by Ukraine’s SBU as a colonel in the main intelligence department of the general headquarters of the armed forces of the Russian Federation Vasili Geranin, according to Ukraine security officials.

But in a second tape released by the agency, two men identified as "The Greek" and "Major" discuss the debris field and the fact the the plane was a civilian aircraft.
“It’s 100 percent a passenger [civilian] aircraft,” Major is recorded as saying, as he admitted to seeing no weapons on site. “Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.”

The Boeing 777 was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it was shot down by what U.S. intelligence sources confirm was a surface-to-air missile near the village of Chornukhine, Luhansk Oblast, some 30 miles inside the the border with Russia.

The second conversation, if verified as authentic, could dispel Russian separatist claims that it was the Ukrainian military that shot the plane down. According to the transpcript:

Major: "These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those cossacks who are based in Chernukhino."

Grek: "Yes, Major."

Major: "The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first '200'

Code: Select all

. We have found the first '200.' A Civilian." Greek: "Well, what do you have there?" Major: "In short, it was 100 percent a passenger [civilian] aircraft." Greek: "Are many people there?" Major: "Holy [expletive]! The debris fell right into the yards [of homes]." In a third intercepted conversation released by the SBU — which the agency says took place about 40 minutes after insurgents seemed to realize they had shot down a civilian plane — Cossack commander Nikolay Kozitsin tells an unidentified separatist that the fact the Malaysia Airlines plane was flying over the combat zone likely meant it was carrying spies. "That means they were carrying spies," Kozitsin allegedly says. "They shouldn’t be [expletive] flying. There is a war going on." On Friday, emergency workers combed the sunflower fields and villages of eastern Ukraine, searching the wreckage of the jetliner. The attack on Thursday afternoon killed 298 people from nearly a dozen nations, including vacationers, students and a large contingent of scientists heading to an AIDS conference. U.S. intelligence authorities said a surface-to-air missile brought down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 as it flew from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, but could not say who fired it. The Ukraine government in Kiev, the separatist pro-Russia rebels they are fighting in the east and the Russia government that Ukraine accuses of supporting the rebels all deny shooting the passenger plane down. Moscow also denies backing the rebels. By midday, at least 181 bodies had been located, emergency workers said. Russian President Vladimir Putin blamed Ukraine for the downing, saying it was responsible for the unrest in its Russian-speaking eastern regions — but did not accuse Ukraine of shooting the plane down and did not address the key question of whether Russia gave the rebels such a powerful missile. Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk described the downing as an "international crime" whose perpetrators would have to be punished in an international tribunal. [url]http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/18/smoking-gun-intercepted-calls-point-finger-in-jet-downing-at-russian/[/url]

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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby 3WE » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:50 pm

The coincidences are interesting- though maybe not as one in a bazillion as the press would have us think.

A FA who made a last minute switch ON to MH17 was married to another FA who made a last minute switch OFF of the missing MH.

One lady lost a brother on the missing plane and a stepdaughter on this one.

And we certainly seem to be burning through the triple 7's this past year.

Of course, "other than first world airline" is a broad facet here.
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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:17 pm

The coincidences are interesting- though maybe not as one in a bazillion as the press would have us think.

A FA who made a last minute switch ON to MH17 was married to another FA who made a last minute switch OFF of the missing MH.

One lady lost a brother on the missing plane and a stepdaughter on this one.

And we certainly seem to be burning through the triple 7's this past year.

Of course, "other than first world airline" is a broad facet here.
and your point is?
......never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. – John Donne

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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby 3WE » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:45 pm

The coincidences are interesting- though maybe not as one in a bazillion as the press would have us think.

A FA who made a last minute switch ON to MH17 was married to another FA who made a last minute switch OFF of the missing MH.

One lady lost a brother on the missing plane and a stepdaughter on this one.

And we certainly seem to be burning through the triple 7's this past year.

Of course, "other than first world airline" is a broad facet here.
and your point is?
Perhaps the first four words in the post will provide insight.
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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby Sickbag » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:20 am

the western media seem to be wetting their collective pants because the site hasn't been cordoned off so the evidence can be tampered with. Yet the site is open to scores of journalists who are rummaging around in the wreckage with macabre glee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMcIp1vSss0

The other big outrage is that the bodies have been taken and put on a refrigerated train. What is the vodak soaked excuse for the authority in the area supposed to do? Leave them in the fields for the crows?
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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby 3WE » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:36 pm

A new coincidence- some dude was booked on BOTH MH flights, but opted out for miscellaneous reasons. (Again, nothing special, but nonetheless interesting.)

And playing off of Sick-Bag's comments about medeia, etc, I'm in the camp that some poor dumb (drunk?) 18 YO had him an enemy plane...

A royal, yet old-fashioned, and boring screw up, but not the major international WW III incident that so many folks want it to be.

Did the Russians give someone something they shouldn't have? I don't know but do bears poop in the woods...is the Pope Catholic? And like the rest of the world is perfect in that regard too...NOT.

Yeah, it's all tragic- but just doesn't have the story line the media would like.
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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby reubee » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:15 am

Was reading up on the similar incident a few years Siberian 1812. The scary thing in that instance was that the missile (different type here though) locked in 150km away http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Ai ... #Shootdown

Another scary thing is those missiles have proximity fuses and explode a ball of shrapnel from a short distance. That must mean a lot of shrapnel misses and presumably comes down to Earth somewhere.

I've had 12 flights on MH 777's in last 6 years, I should've kept tracked on regos.
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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby monchavo » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:16 pm

This one has had blanket coverage in the UK over the last week - the grisly footage (everything from the moment of impact to charred spines and body parts) has made it onto every nook and cranny of official broadcast, web and social media. The Buk launcher appears to be the smoking gun....

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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby J » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:06 pm

MH17 crash: Dutch experts say numerous objects hit plane
This coverage of the preliminary report by the Dutch Safety Board is a pretty good recap of knowledge to date including a transcript of voice recordings, information about other aircraft in the area and photographs of shrapnel damage to the aircraft's skin. In short, "This report doesn't say flight MH17 was knocked from the sky by a missile. But it pretty much rules out anything else."

News Coverage:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29119024

Copy of Preliminary Report
http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/ph ... actief.pdf

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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby monchavo » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:29 pm

"a large number of high velocity objects penetrated the skin"

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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby 3WE » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:26 pm

"a large number of small insects penetrated my skin"
...trying to follow up on the camping trip.
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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby ocelot » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:18 pm

fairly interesting read on this subject:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32283378

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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Thu May 24, 2018 11:18 am

MH17 missile owned by Russian brigade, investigators say
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44235402
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Re: Malaysia 777 Shot down over Ukraine

Postby Verbal » Thu May 24, 2018 5:29 pm

Is not true. Is American propaganda. Airplane shot itself down. We have completed five-year plan in only four years.
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