AA Cancelations- MD-80 Wiring

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Digger
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Re: AA Cancelations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby Digger » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:55 am

Thanks, Halfie. I had the information below before reading your post, just hadn't had time to put it together and post it.
Whether those changes are satisfactory to truly eliminate the "dual mandate" is an interesting discussion point.
I found the place where the FAA's dual mandate was eliminated. Public Law 104-264, which was the FAA reauthorization bill of 1996. I think the intent of the law itself is pretty much unequivocal--"ELIMINATION OF DUAL MANDATE" doesn't leave much room for interpretation.

http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/1000/1000/1070/avreauth96.html
TITLE IV--AVIATION SAFETY

SEC. 401. ELIMINATION OF DUAL MANDATE.

(a) Safety Considerations in Public Interest.--
(1) Safety as highest priority.--Section 40101(d) is
amended--
(A) by redesignating paragraphs (1) through (6) as
paragraphs (2) through (7), respectively; and
(B) by inserting before paragraph (2), as so
redesignated, the following:
``(1) assigning, maintaining, and enhancing safety and
security as the highest priorities in air commerce.''.
(2) Elimination of promotion.--Section 40101(d) is further
amended--
(A) in paragraph (2), as redesignated by paragraph
(1)(A) of this subsection, by striking ``its development
and''; and
(B) in paragraph (3), as so redesignated--
(i) by striking ``promoting, encouraging,''
and inserting ``encouraging''; and
(ii) by inserting before the period at the end
``, including new aviation technology''.

(b) FAA Safety Mission.--
(1) In general.--Section 40104 is amended--
(A) by inserting ``safety of'' before ``air
commerce'' in the section heading;
(B) by inserting ``Safety of'' before ``Air
Commerce'' in the heading of subsection (a); and
(C) by inserting ``safety of'' before ``air
commerce'' in subsection (a).
(2) Clerical amendment.--The table of sections for chapter
401 is amended by striking the item relating to section 40104
and inserting the following:

``40104. Promotion of civil aeronautics and safety of air commerce.''.
All of section 401 can be found here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title4 ... r401_.html

It's 40101 and 40104 that are applicable.

The thing that really struck me about the quote from the FAA chronology was the line, "To address public perceptions about FAA’s “dual mission,...” I read that as having the attitude that there was nothing at all wrong with the way things were being run--that no, the relationships were not too close. I think the events of the present day confirm that that attitude never changed.

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Half Bottle
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Re: AA Cancelations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby Half Bottle » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:34 am

I think the intent of the law itself is pretty much unequivocal--"ELIMINATION OF DUAL MANDATE" doesn't leave much room for interpretation.
Of course, one must be careful to distinguish between titles and what the law actually says. Ref: "USA PATRIOT Act"
The thing that really struck me about the quote from the FAA chronology was the line, "To address public perceptions about FAA’s “dual mission,...” I read that as having the attitude that there was nothing at all wrong with the way things were being run--that no, the relationships were not too close. I think the events of the present day confirm that that attitude never changed.
Yes, that grabbed me, too. I think your conclusion is correct.
~~~ In Oxford Town, you smell like dead lab rats. ~~~

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Dmmoore
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Re: AA Cancellations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby Dmmoore » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:03 pm

Thanks Digger,
I remember the change in the law after you rattled my brain with your post.
I agree with your conclusion.
I also think the FAA was too strict if they required AAL to ground the fleet or that AAL didn't react properly in requesting an AMOC which should have spelled out how they intended to bring the fleet into compliance.
Don
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READY - FIRE - AIM!

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Giles
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Re: AA Cancellations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby Giles » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:18 pm

I also think the FAA was too strict if they required AAL to ground the fleet or that AAL didn't react properly in requesting an AMOC which should have spelled out how they intended to bring the fleet into compliance.
Cant these two threads be merged?
http://airdisaster.info/10/forums/viewt ... =652#p7900
The FAA raised new concerns about American's recent inspections--in which it and Delta ended up canceling hundreds of MD-80 flights at the end of March--because of the "manner in which American followed the engineering change order (ECO) that had been written for the airworthiness directive related to the wiring in the MD-80s wheel wells. Specifically, some areas of concern included the spacing of the ties on the wiring bundle and the direction in which the retention clips and lacing cords were facing."

American assigned teams today, including maintenance technicians, quality assurance inspectors and engineers, to inspect the aircraft and make any necessary adjustments.

American also said that it has applied for and received FAA approvals of an alternative method of compliance for this AD that has already been applied to the MD-80 fleet of other carriers.

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Half Bottle
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Re: AA Cancellations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby Half Bottle » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:50 pm

Cant these two threads be merged?
No.


(Someone had to say it).
~~~ In Oxford Town, you smell like dead lab rats. ~~~

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Giles
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Re: AA Cancellations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby Giles » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:10 pm

Cant these two threads be merged?
No.


(Someone had to say it).
brilliant!

are you Ed?

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Half Bottle
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Re: AA Cancellations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby Half Bottle » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:31 pm

brilliant!

are you Ed?
Wouldn't it be remarkable if I were?
~~~ In Oxford Town, you smell like dead lab rats. ~~~

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tds
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Re: AA Cancellations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby tds » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:45 pm

Wouldn't it be remarkable if I were?
No.

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J
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Re: AA Cancelations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby J » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:39 pm

I think the Wall Street Journal has a pretty good take on this situation. I've sat in hearings and watched Oberstar at work. His pauses for dramatic effect are particularly poignant.
Excerpt

After the Federal Aviation Administration fined Southwest Airlines more than $10 million last month for inspection lapses, Congress rounded up the usual scapegoats for some hearings. FAA officials told the House Transportation Committee that the Southwest situation was "an isolated problem, not a systematic one." But James Oberstar, the Minnesota Democrat who chairs the panel, was unpersuaded.

It's clear we have a structural problem at the FAA," declared Mr. Oberstar, to nationwide headlines. "I fear that complacency may have set in at the highest levels of FAA management, reflecting a pendulum swing away from vigorous enforcement of compliance, toward a carrier-favorable, cozy relationship."
* * *
There's a lesson here, and it reverberates beyond the FAA and the airline industry. Mr. Oberstar and other Democrats in Congress would just as soon do to the Food and Drug Administration and the Consumer Product and Safety Commission and other "consumer protection" agencies exactly what they've managed to do to the FAA inside of a month's time. We thought we'd left this hypernanny state mentality in the 1970s, but with this Democratic Congress it is back with a vengeance.
* * *
Last year, the National Transportation Safety Board reported that "the number of accidents in all segments of civil aviation in 2006 were less than in 2005, with general aviation recording the lowest number of accidents and fatal accidents in the 40 years of NTSB record keeping." Even while flight hours and departures have risen markedly in recent decades, the agency said that "fatal accidents are rare events, occurring only .01 accidents per 100,000 flight hours or .018 accidents per 100,000 departures."

SOURCE: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1207870 ... lenews_wsj

Digger
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Re: AA Cancelations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby Digger » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:58 pm

Also, from the WSJ article:
American, Delta and United have now grounded thousands of flights for unscheduled maintenance checks that have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with the shell-shocked FAA striking a pose for Congress.
and,
Meanwhile, air travelers face delays and cancellations while inspectors mull over minutiae like whether the retention clips used to bundle wires in the wheel well of a plane should face forward or backward.
Like I asked earlier, if ADs are worth issuing, are they not worth complying with? When did the Wall Street Journal become the arbiter of what's safe and what's not ?

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Gabriel
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Re: AA Cancelations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby Gabriel » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:52 pm

That, and they had more than a year BEFORE THE AD WAS DUE to mull over whether that tupid clip should face forward or backward.

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Dmmoore
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Re: AA Cancellations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby Dmmoore » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:27 pm

As I understand it, American was the airline that reported the problem to Boeing in the first place. American helped Boeing develop the S/B. American actually accomplished the intent of the S/B on most of their fleet before Boeing released the S/B or the FAA blessed (cursed) the S/B into an A.D.

American had improved the condition of their wiring harnesses. They should have insured they were in compliance with the FAA's AD but I suspect they thought they were. The FAA is correct, AAL should bring their wiring fully into compliance. The FAA is wrong in insisting AAL ground it's aircraft because the wiring was already improved over the factory installation. The FAA could have authorized an AMOC giving AAL additional time to accomplish the full A.D. but wrongly chose not to and there is no recourse. When the FAA says no, it's no.
Don
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READY - FIRE - AIM!

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J
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Re: AA Cancelations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby J » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:17 pm

While the theme of this particular thread doesn't exactly relate to the following it does mention ValuJet in passing and is an opportunity to reacquaint ourselves with some absent forumites.



ValuJet Flight 592 crash: FBI offers $10,000 for info on fugitive in deadly 1996 crash


MIAMI -- Federal authorities are offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to the capture of a fugitive airline mechanic connected to a 1996 passenger plane crash in the Florida Everglades. The FBI announced the new reward Thursday for information about Mauro Ociel Valenzuela-Reyes, who worked for SabreTech, the maintenance contractor for ValuJet Airlines.

Valenzuela-Reyes was facing federal criminal charges in 1999 after investigators determined he had mishandled oxygen generators that were placed in the DC-9's cargo hold. The generators were missing required safety caps and ignited in the cargo area. The Flight 592 crash killed all 110 passengers and crew members.

"He fled before trial," said FBI Miami Special Agent Jacqueline Fruge, who has led the agency's investigation.

Valenzuela-Reyes has family connections to Atlanta and Santiago, Chile. Authorities say he might be living in one of those places under a false identity.

"We've tried over the years to find him," said Fruge. "It bothers me. I've lived and breathed it for many, many years."
Rescuers arrived at the scene far from any roads in the Everglades about 20 miles east of Miami to find a shocking sight. The plane was gone, shredded into bits by the impact of the crash. Metal fuselage parts and small pieces of human tissue floated in a few feet of water, just below the service.

It was a charnel house that sickened searchers, and a hallowed site to those who lost someone in the crash.

It would be months before the majority of the plane's pieces and all of the parts of the victims could be retrieved, and months more before the official cause was released.

What investigators knew was that the plane had been destroyed in mid-air by a massive on-board fire. When investigators finished their job, they believed they had the cause. Canisters which generated oxygen for the plane's emergency systems, apparently improperly stored and loaded aboard the plane, ignited and caused tires in the hold to blaze.

Thick smoke filled the cabin, the pilots lost control, and the plane smashed into the shallow waters of the Everglades at near top speed. The plane disintegrated on impact.

The improper handling of the canisters, which used a chemical reaction to produce oxygen and in the process, generated heat, was blamed on Sabretech, a Valujet subcontractor. Something caused a canister to spark about 6 minutes into the flight, torching the tires upon which the box had been placed.

The cabin was filled with smoke, control cables were burned, and the doomed plane plunged to its death.

The finger pointing lasted more than a year. The airline was blasted for shoddy oversight. The subcontractor was accused of failing to follow procedure. The investigation highlighted a number of areas in which safety could be improved, one of the legacies of the Valujet disaster.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/valujet-fl ... ela-reyes/

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3WE
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Re: AA Cancelations- MD-80 Wiring

Postby 3WE » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:41 pm

While the theme of this particular thread doesn't exactly relate to the following it does mention ValuJet in passing and is an opportunity to reacquaint ourselves with some absent forumites, with the last post being days short of 10 years ago...
Fixed.
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