EgyptAir Flight MS804

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Not_Karl
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby Not_Karl » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:19 pm

Both FDR and CVR were damaged and were sent to France for repairs.
Late Jun 27th 2016 Egypt's CAA announced (mirrored by the BEA in the morning of Jun 28th), that the French experts at the BEA Labs were able to successfully repair the electronic boards of the flight data recorder, subsequent testing to ensure data were on the recorder and can be downloaded has been successful. The following day (Jun 28th) attempts to repair the board of the cockpit voice recorder will commence, thereafter the recorders will be returned to Cairo for download and data analysis.
http://avherald.com/h?article=4987fb09&opt=0
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby Not_Karl » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:08 pm

Fire confirmed:
On Jun 29th 2016 Egypt's CAA reported that the flight data recorder has been successfully downloaded. Data are present from departure at Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris until the aircraft was at FL370 just after the ACARS messages (see below in data section) were transmitted. Together with wreckage parts from the front of the aircraft, that had been recovered for showing severe heat damage and thick black smoke damage, there is evidence of a fire in the forward section of the aircraft. The investigation is going to undertake comprehensive analysis to try to determine the source and cause of the fire.
(Link to AvHerald in post above)
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby 3WE » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:58 am

:roll: I'm not sure that's all that much new information...just new data that aligns with old data.
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby 3WE » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:30 am

7/5/2015:

I see a headline to the effect that "The Pilots Tried to Put out the Fire".

https://www.yahoo.com/news/egyptair-cra ... 14374.html

Within the article is no evidence nor comment whatsoever as to what indicates that pilots were trying to put out a fire.

I heart the media...
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby Sickbag » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:53 pm

Within the article is no evidence nor comment whatsoever as to what indicates that pilots were trying to put out a fire.
They put it out when they hit the ocean didn't they?
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby 3WE » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:35 pm

Within the article is no evidence nor comment whatsoever as to what indicates that pilots were trying to put out a fire.
They put it out when they hit the ocean didn't they?
Sorry, Sir Sickbag, there is no evidence presented to corroborate that the pilots were making an active attempt to extinguish the fire using small hand-held extinguishers, nor cowboy improvisation to use a massive, water-based extinguisher.

Based on the information in the article, one could just as easily suppose that the pilots were passed out and that some donkeys were at the controls, guiding the plane into the ocean.
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby Gabriel » Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:44 am

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/07/world ... is-israel/
Plane debris found on a beach in northern Israel is very likely from crashed EgyptAir Flight 804, the Israeli Prime Minister's office said Thursday.

The debris was collected Thursday morning from the beach of Netanya, the statement said.

"It appears with very high probability that this is the debris of the Egyptian plane that blew up over the Mediterranean Sea a couple of months ago."
What does Bibi knows that we don't?

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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby 3WE » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:48 am

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/07/world ... is-israel/
Plane debris found on a beach in northern Israel is very likely from crashed EgyptAir Flight 804, the Israeli Prime Minister's office said Thursday.

The debris was collected Thursday morning from the beach of Netanya, the statement said.

"It appears with very high probability that this is the debris of the Egyptian plane that blew up over the Mediterranean Sea a couple of months ago."
What does Bibi knows that we don't?
I didn't blow up...it was flying fine, but on fire...

...or not.
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby 3WE » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:35 am

...On yahoo this AM: The word "Fire" is heard on the CVR.
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby monchavo » Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:03 pm

...On yahoo this AM: The word "Fire" is heard on the CVR.

Incredibly annoying. The statement is so brief it's essentially useless.
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby 3WE » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:17 pm

...On yahoo this AM: The word "Fire" is heard on the CVR.

Incredibly annoying. The statement is so brief it's essentially useless.
It's not really the briefness that gets me, it's that we already have a number of pretty good indications that there was a fire, so this is of minimal new value...I guess there might be some inference (if you really stretch it) that there was not an explosion, per se.

I even think the initial rumors from long ago of a turn and level-off near 10,000 feet are suggestive of the pilots having some control of things and most likely discussing the situation, and then the various ACARS fire-related messages.

In addition, there was that other article with the headline that "the crew was fighting the fire", and then had no sentences whatsoever in the body of the article that addressed the headline...at all, any, whatsoever.

"An official anonymously reported that the CVR contained discussion that indicated that the crew made an effort to extinguish the fire, but no further details were supplied".

Aw well, I'm sure the headline generated a good bit of click traffic.
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby ocelot » Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:09 am

I remember, some years ago, maybe even on the old forum, someone here proclaiming that when you get a fire indication you need to get it on the ground in 30 minutes if you don't want to died. (Or 20 minutes, or 44 minutes and 18.227 seconds; I forget exactly.) This absolute assertion immediately caused one of the running bickering arguments we routinely know and don't love -- why 44:18.227 and not 44:17.227, what about gliders because they don't have fuel on board, why such a requirement isn't in the FARs, all that rot.

From the information I've seen, it seems like in this case either the fire was not burning for anything near as long as 20/30/44:18.227 minutes before the A/C went down for good, or it must have been going for quite some time before any of the events we're aware of took place. I also haven't seen any commentary on this point. Is this a reasonable thing to think (speculate wildly) about?

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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby elaw » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:58 am

It's certainly a reasonable topic of discussion... some aircraft have remained airborne for many minutes after the initiation of a fire that ultimately rendered them not airworthy. At the other end of the spectrum, to give an extreme example, would be TWA flight 800 in which the plane became unairworthy about 100 milliseconds after a fire started.

The problem is, you really can't say much about it without knowing the nature and location of the fire, and there seems to be no real information available on those topics.
Last edited by elaw on Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby elaw » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:58 am

*Bonehead hits "quote" button instead of "edit"...*

(Why can't we delete our own posts???)
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Gabriel
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby Gabriel » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:55 am

I remember. It was 15 minutes and it was a rule-of-thumb average. Of course the variation is huge.

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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby ocelot » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:42 am

The problem is, you really can't say much about it without knowing the nature and location of the fire, and there seems to be no real information available on those topics.
I suppose not, but we aren't talking about an instant fuel tank explosion, and in most things that aren't fuel (or lithium batteries) a fire has to burn for a while before it becomes large enough to threaten structural integrity or damage all instances of redundant systems. Not necessarily fifteen minutes, but probably more than 2-4. So it seems to me that either the fire must have burned for a while somewhere it wasn't/couldn't be detected, or it spread abnormally rapidly. (Or possibly the situation was in progress for longer but prevented earlier ACARS reports from getting through.)

There's a limited number of places on an aircraft that a fire can burn undetected...

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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:54 pm

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/07/world ... is-israel/
Plane debris found on a beach in northern Israel is very likely from crashed EgyptAir Flight 804, the Israeli Prime Minister's office said Thursday.

The debris was collected Thursday morning from the beach of Netanya, the statement said.

"It appears with very high probability that this is the debris of the Egyptian plane that blew up over the Mediterranean Sea a couple of months ago."
What does Bibi knows that we don't?
Maybe he was right....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38330316
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Re: EgyptAir Flight MS804

Postby 3WE » Tue May 23, 2017 12:38 pm

I note, there, that there are new 'information releases'.

Perhaps something to the effect that something bad quickly happened at cruise.

Evan feels that transparency is lacking- I seem to recall they had the CVR which, in this incident, might be very insightful.

Gabe posted an av-hearld quote, and, perhaps, the new word of the day is 'explosives':

http://avherald.com/h?article=4987fb09&opt=0

I seem to recall that there were indications of leveling 'around' 10,000 feet and and a sort-of-deliberate-looking circle...
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