EgyptAir Flight MS804

[Rabbi O'Genius]

Disappeared from radar......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36309492

[monchavo]

EgyptAir flight MS804 disappears from radar between Paris and Cairo

trace appears to show south med, bit north of Libya?

[Not_Karl]

ELT signal has been picked up.

AvHerald article.

[Ancient Mariner]

They all died. My guess is that the airplane fell out of the sky and hit the water hard
Per

[PurduePilot]

They all died. My guess is that the airplane fell out of the sky and hit the water hard
Per

I hope you didn't strain too much coming up with that assessment.

[Ancient Mariner]

They all died. My guess is that the airplane fell out of the sky and hit the water hard
Per

I hope you didn't strain too much coming up with that assessment.

Nope, it came floating on a raft.
Per

[Sickbag]

The world is crying its a terror event, but we won't know till the final report.

[3WE]

The world is crying its a terror event, but we won't know till the final report.

Indeed- the ass-hat speculative conclusions seem much stronger than normal.

[Gabriel]

The world is crying its a terror event, but we won't know till the final report.

I could very well be, but it could very well be otherwise. We have no hint yet in one direction or the other. Not even terrorist's claims.

[flyboy2548m]

I'm just going to go ahead and make everyone's posts for them, thus saving everybody much time and effort. All y'all are welcome.

They made a 90deg turn to the left then a 360 to the right. Doesn't that require 2 autopilots? Why does it require 2 autopilots? How many trim switches does the 320 have? I'm just trying to understand, but don't anyone try to explain it to me, I won't believe you anyway.

This was a quintuple ELAC failure! Quintuple, do you hear me, quintuple! What's that you say? There are only 2 ELACs? And their failure is no big deal? I don't care, it was a quintuple failure, because I'm Evan and I say so!

I prefer to teach type-specific skills! What's that you say? I don't actually teach anything and never will? I don't care, I'm Evan!

Look at all my f***ing knowledge, LOOK AT IT! Brianie, they're not listening to me! Ban them all!

This aggie thinks "we" oughtta wait for the FINAL REPORT

Airplanes without APUs don't have APU fire surpression systems either. If you knew anything about systems, you'd know that.

What the bejesus are we talking about?

This reminds me of Half Bottle

Or something...

[3WE]

I'm just going to go ahead and make everyone's posts for them, thus saving everybody much time and effort. All y'all are welcome.

...all sorts of stuff...

Or something...

[Not_Karl]

I'm just going to go ahead and make everyone's posts for them, thus saving everybody much time and effort. All y'all are welcome.

This aggie thinks "we" oughtta wait for the FINAL REPORT

This reminds me of Half Bottle

Or something...

Thank you (and CONCUR to waiting for the final report), but how you dare to omit my glorious underscore?

[Gabriel]

I love you guys

We love you too. Please keep participating in constructive discussion sharing your immense knowledge with us.

[3WE]

...Or something

I have a certain disdain for Evan's narrow, judgmental viewpoints, and will attempt to post accordingly, with varied success.

In the meantime, I will wait for a few, interim, semi-factual reports.

[3WE]

I'm just going to go ahead and make everyone's posts for them, thus saving everybody much time and effort. All y'all are welcome.

[Flyboy came up with nothing]

Just trying to challenge you a bit...

[flyboy2548m]

I'm just going to go ahead and make everyone's posts for them, thus saving everybody much time and effort. All y'all are welcome.

[Flyboy came up with nothing]

Just trying to challenge you a bit...

He said:

Ich weis nicht wo diesen kurzstreckenvehrkehrsflugzeug Ist.

[flyboy2548m]

I love you guys

We love you too. Please keep participating in constructive discussion sharing your immense knowledge with us.

Same here, Gabby. Looking forward to your upcoming lectures on Phugoids and the Kutta Condition, on both of which you are one of the world's leading experts.

[Sickbag]

Well the data seems to suggest a less then instantaneous loss of the aircraft and fire or smoke alarms in various places, plus the pilot's window opening, which seems a bit desperate if it was initiated by the crew.

[Gabriel]

Well the data seems to suggest a less then instantaneous loss of the aircraft and fire or smoke alarms in various places, plus the pilot's window opening, which seems a bit desperate if it was initiated by the crew.

I don't think so. Unless the pilots opened the fixed pane too.

[3WE]

...Kutta Condition...

That's some cool stuff. Probably a bit beyond my comprehension, but, what the hell, I'll try to do some more reading...

...I'm betting your favorite references: http://www.faa.gov/aim.pdf and http://www.faa.gov/far.pdf probably won't cut it.

[Gabriel]

...Kutta Condition...

That's some cool stuff. Probably a bit beyond my comprehension, but, what the hell, I'll try to do some more reading...

...I'm betting your favorite references: http://www.faa.gov/aim.pdf and http://www.faa.gov/far.pdf probably won't cut it.

"The airflow will separate at the trailing edge." (paraphrased).

"A body with a sharp trailing edge which is moving through a fluid will create about itself a circulation of sufficient strength to hold the rear stagnation point at the trailing edge." (verbatim)

This boundary condition is fundamental to the theoretical study of airfoils, to the point that before Kutta stated it some super genius aerodynamicist of the last millennium postulated that heavy-than-air things cannot fly because lift is impossible. Of course the forgot to look up at the birds that are heavier than air and could fly without major concern, probably thanks to ignoring that theoretical impossibility.

[3WE]

...bright orange boxes located.

[flyboy2548m]

So, a question:

Supposing you're on fire. The fire is somewhere inaccessible, like maybe the avionics bay.

Do you:

a) stay at FL370, do a lot of praying, and/or watch the airplane burn up around you?

b) get the blasted thing on the ground quick and soon, which might necessitate, I don't know, an emergency descent?

I ask because I recently heard that an emergency descent is a bad thing to do with an on-board fire, because "speed and oxygen" might make it worse

[Gabriel]

b) get the blasted thing on the ground quick and soon

What ground? If you want to be ON THE GROUND soon, then keep it high up to the point where you will reach ground at the end of the emergency descent. The ground speed you can keep up there is quite higher than at say 10K ft.

Now, if you the situation is such that you want it down ASAP even if it means ditching in the middle of the sea a hundred miles from the nearest piece of land (and this may be a very valid decision indeed), then go for the emergency descent.

The emergency descent also makes sense if you want to use ram air or open a door or window to remove smoke (if you deem that smoke is the greater danger rather than fire), as your friend Evan suggested. These things don't work in a pressurized plane.

I don't know the procedures, and this kind of stuff doesn't apply to the Tomahawk, at least not in the same way. So all that is just what the "logic" tells me which can be flawed due to ignoring specific procedures, systems or circumstances.

[Gabriel]

b) get the blasted thing on the ground quick and soon

What ground? If you want to be ON THE GROUND soon, then keep it high up to the point where you will reach ground at the end of the emergency descent. The ground speed you can keep up there is quite higher than at say 10K ft. The "speed" that can make it worse it the slowest speed at lower altitudes, and hence longer time burning before you reach the ground.

Now, if you the situation is such that you want it down ASAP even if it means ditching in the middle of the sea a hundred miles from the nearest piece of land (and this may be a very valid decision indeed), then go for the emergency descent.

The emergency descent also makes sense if you want to use ram air or open a door or window to remove smoke (if you deem that smoke is the greater danger rather than fire), as your friend Evan suggested. These things don't work in a pressurized plane.

I don't know the procedures, and this kind of stuff doesn't apply to the Tomahawk, at least not in the same way. So all that is just what the "logic" tells me which can be flawed due to ignoring specific procedures, systems or circumstances.