Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
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Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
It's happened again... http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/09/us/delta- ... orce-base/
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
I blame "we".
We're (except Evan) always bitching that they focus too much on that magenta line and not enough on cowboy fundamentals like hand flying and looking out the window.
We're (except Evan) always bitching that they focus too much on that magenta line and not enough on cowboy fundamentals like hand flying and looking out the window.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Déjà vu? Wasn't there another Delta A320 making exactly the same mistake at the same airport a few years ago?
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
According to this list: http://www.thirdamendment.com/WrongWay.pdf the next-most-recent was a Southwest 737 (which we all know is just an A320 without the xbox) that landed at PLK (M Graham Clark Downtown Airport in Branson, Missouri) instead of BKG (the "big" airport in Branson). I think in that incident, there was a greater danger in the form of a relatively short runway.
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Found it. It was an A319, not an A320 (but that would be like saying that it was a 737-800 and not a -900), and it was Northwest, not Delta, although Northwest is now merged into Delta.
Maybe they should paint big white signs on the runway at Ellsworth AFB, just short of the numbers, saying "NOT KRAP".
EDIT: It is in http://www.thirdamendment.com/WrongWay.pdf too:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... /86879086/While rare, U.S. flights have occasionally landed at the wrong airports before.
In fact, a similar incident involving the same airports also occurred in 2004 when a Northwest Airlines A319 also mistakenly landed at Ellsworth.
Maybe they should paint big white signs on the runway at Ellsworth AFB, just short of the numbers, saying "NOT KRAP".
EDIT: It is in http://www.thirdamendment.com/WrongWay.pdf too:
Hint: CTRL+F "ells"June 19, 2004 - A Northwest Airlines A319, bound for Rapid City, South Dakota (RAP),
mistakenly lands at Ellsworth Air Force Base.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Question to Flyboy / Dummy / ITS / Any True Insider:
How often do you land without some sort of definitive, positive, hard, electronic guidance to the runway...(up and running as a back up- I know that visual approaches don't "use" that)
I know that sometimes the ILS is down, but isn't it good practice (and 99.9% the case) to have "miles to go" reading out on an integrated GPS navigation system, or DME or something?
How often do you land without some sort of definitive, positive, hard, electronic guidance to the runway...(up and running as a back up- I know that visual approaches don't "use" that)
I know that sometimes the ILS is down, but isn't it good practice (and 99.9% the case) to have "miles to go" reading out on an integrated GPS navigation system, or DME or something?
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
- flyboy2548m
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Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
For all purposes never.Question to Flyboy / Dummy / ITS / Any True Insider:
How often do you land without some sort of definitive, positive, hard, electronic guidance to the runway...(up and running as a back up- I know that visual approaches don't "use" that)
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Well then, we shouldn't be landing at the wrong place as much as we do.For all purposes never.Question to Flyboy / Dummy / ITS / Any True Insider:
How often do you land without some sort of definitive, positive, hard, electronic guidance to the runway...(up and running as a back up- I know that visual approaches don't "use" that)
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
How much is "as much as we do"?Well then, we shouldn't be landing at the wrong place as much as we do.
Your third amendment site lists 12 incidents in the last 10 years. How many (million) flights were there in that period?
Even if all the SOPs say to use nav data to crosscheck the right airport, that doesn't mean that, every a million flight, one crew will not forget to do so or will tune the navs as required but not may close attention to that.
We have much more near miss, incursions, altitude busts, not following clearance, etc. Not to mention engines failing or being shut down in flight, loss of cabin pressures (hopefully followed by an emergency descent), cabin smoke/fumes and busting minimums.
From all the dangers of flying, landing at the wrong airport is among the ones that concerns me the least, because it happens very seldom, and because chances are that you will walk away from such a landing (perhaps after another short hop and another landing at the intended destination).
- flyboy2548m
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Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
That's a relief. I bet your buddy Evanie is fixing to hang himself over this by contrast.From all the dangers of flying, landing at the wrong airport is among the ones that concerns me the least,...
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Nah... if you check at the other forum, you'll see that once again he's all in a tizzy because an aviator was found to be aviating.
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.
- flyboy2548m
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Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Yeah, I saw...
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
- Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Yeah, I saw...
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Any improvisation or deviations from acronym-laden procedures?...an aviator was found to be aviating...
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
- flyboy2548m
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Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Breaking news:
Descending is inherently risky!
Descending is inherently risky!
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
- Not_Karl
- Previously banned for not socially distancing
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Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
CONCUR.Breaking news:
Descending is inherently risky!
As far as I know, all crashes -aside from flying level into a mountain, failing to lift-off or mid-air collisions/explosions/disintegrations- were at the end of a descent -commanded or not-.
How many more tragedies need to happen before descending is banned?
International Ban ALL Aeroplanies Association, founder and president.
"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.
"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Well the funny thing is, in spite of his outrage, "Captain E" has not documented any of same (in this case).Any improvisation or deviations from acronym-laden procedures?
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Yesterday, I was busy flying the Vandelay Fertilizer Ram 1500 for 825 miles through a wide range of weather systems and headwinds in Flyover America and caught up last night.Well the funny thing is, in spite of his outrage, "Captain E" has not documented any of same (in this case).Any improvisation or deviations from acronym-laden procedures?
I am inspired to share this picture I saw on another forum:
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
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Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Four minutes, folks. That's the magic number, apparently. Which is up from one minute.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
...darn, would've sworn the Domestic Super Genius Airbus Pilot of the Millennium was an aeronautical engineerist...but then again, you're getting awfully improvisational...selecting a power and pitch that you are intimately familiar with while someone else checks the books....Four minutes, folks. That's the magic number, apparently. Which is up from one minute.
...and, no "we" don't want to listen to Nav either.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
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Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
In recent times it's been with an increasing frequency that I've been getting reminded of the words of the great American philosopher Stewart Gilligan "Stewie" Griffin who said "it's like trying to play Marco Polo with Helen Keller".
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
I had to look up Helen Keller, laughed at the quote, and I felt bad for laughing.In recent times it's been with an increasing frequency that I've been getting reminded of the words of the great American philosopher Stewart Gilligan "Stewie" Griffin who said "it's like trying to play Marco Polo with Helen Keller".
- flyboy2548m
- Posts: 4391
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
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Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Did you look up Stewie Griffin?I had to look up Helen Keller, laughed at the quote, and I felt bad for laughing.In recent times it's been with an increasing frequency that I've been getting reminded of the words of the great American philosopher Stewart Gilligan "Stewie" Griffin who said "it's like trying to play Marco Polo with Helen Keller".
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
He's a sick little bastard.Did you look up Stewie Griffin?
I like Brian much better and feel bad for his romantic failures toward Lois.
Flyboy, I would also invite you to request Runway 6 at Flyover...
It's the strangest deal...guys pass over all day long on the South downwind at 300-whatever degrees and 6 to 10,000 feet...then a random Southwest airliner comes by way low turning towards runway six...while a few minutes later, everyone's back going way out Northwest, across the river and back.
I guess it could be ATC being weird, but I tend to assume it's that nifty Southwest spirit saving a few gallons of kerosene and shooting a gap between those horribly busy triple parallel runways.
Yes, I would imagine that the 'traffic pattern' to SUS would impact things too.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
Re: Aviate... communicate... what was that other thing?
Nah, I knew that one.Did you look up Stewie Griffin?
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