Cough cough

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elaw
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Cough cough

Postby elaw » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:24 pm

There's an interesting article by capt. mustache in everyone's favorite obscure aviation magazine about cabin fume incidents.

He seems to think they're real and as a solution suggests "if you smell something, say something".

Although it's possible (probable?) there's more than one chemical at issue, it appears that CO is the biggest concern. Given that, I'm a little surprised he didn't mention that you can get a CO detector at any hardware store for 30 bucks and maybe they should start thinking about putting something of that sort in aircraft.

Edit: especially since such things seem to be readily available starting at the low low price of about 5 bucks: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ps/ ... ctors.html. I'm sure the $5 ones wouldn't be suitable for a commercial airliner, but "real" ones can be had for about a grand which in the aviation world is still pretty cheap.
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.

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Gabriel
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Re: Cough cough

Postby Gabriel » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:13 pm

He seems to think they're real and as a solution suggests "if you smell something, say something".

Although it's possible (probable?) there's more than one chemical at issue, it appears that CO is the biggest concern. Given that, I'm a little surprised he didn't mention that you can get a CO detector at any hardware store for 30 bucks and maybe they should start thinking about putting something of that sort in aircraft.
I totally agree but my first comment would be how can you smell something that has no smell like CO.

CO may be not the most common case, but as you said it is the most concerning one since it can have (and have already had in pilots and cabin crew) long-lasting, life changing effects/injuries, including ones that make you ineligible for an aviation medical certificate.

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3WE
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Re: Cough cough

Postby 3WE » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:28 pm

This is a DIFFICULT issue.

Who does not love the smell of partially burned kerosene? It IS prevalent at active airports.

AND, I have a very vivid memory of a DC-10 ride where I SWEAR it was a textbook, burning electrical insulation smell (in fact, it was dinner in the oven) It wasn't thick; however, it wasn't faint.

I think on my very last trip- it smelled like the coffee burner had some gunk on it...

OH AND YET ANOTHER THING...when the humidity is a bit high, the way that mist hangs when air is decompressed...REAL common for the AC PACS to be dumping 'smoke' into the cabin- with cooking dinner and coffee and making smoke, how can the crew give a 'smell alert' 'good diligence' without tending to blow it off.

I dunno- I guess CO detectors might be a good idea.

We need to ask Evan how all that good scientific engineering goes in to making heaters for light aircraft that run air past cheap, thin ferric and aluminum pipes that contain very hot, fairly high pressure fairly high levels of CO2, CO and other toxic and irritating hydrocarbons...The Risk:Benefit:Predicatable outcome argument there is kind of tough to stomach (or should I say "lung" as a verb?)
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elaw
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Re: Cough cough

Postby elaw » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:45 pm

He seems to think they're real and as a solution suggests "if you smell something, say something".

Although it's possible (probable?) there's more than one chemical at issue, it appears that CO is the biggest concern. Given that, I'm a little surprised he didn't mention that you can get a CO detector at any hardware store for 30 bucks and maybe they should start thinking about putting something of that sort in aircraft.
I totally agree but my first comment would be how can you smell something that has no smell like CO.

CO may be not the most common case, but as you said it is the most concerning one since it can have (and have already had in pilots and cabin crew) long-lasting, life changing effects/injuries, including ones that make you ineligible for an aviation medical certificate.
Well I think in this case the "ass"umption is that the CO would be accompanied by other things that do have an odor.

However to his credit, Mr. Mustache does mention "olfactory fatigue" which is the phenomenon where you stop smelling something as time passes, even though the substance is still there. So even with something with a clear odor, the human nose is not a very good monitor.
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.

elaw
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Re: Cough cough

Postby elaw » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:47 pm

We need to ask Evan how all that good scientific engineering goes in to making heaters for light aircraft that run air past cheap, thin ferric and aluminum pipes that contain very hot, fairly high pressure fairly high levels of CO2, CO and other toxic and irritating hydrocarbons...The Risk:Benefit:Predicatable outcome argument there is kind of tough to stomach (or should I say "lung" as a verb?)
For what it's worth, I remember reading many years ago that CO in light aircraft is definitely an issue. Not only from perforated/leaky exhaust joints and heat exchangers and such, but also from the head gaskets on the cylinders.

At that time electronic CO detectors were not cheap and plentiful but now...
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.

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Sickbag
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Re: Cough cough

Postby Sickbag » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:43 pm

"if you smell something, say something
"He who smelt it,dealt it.
He who denied it, supplied it."
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within 18 months...

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flyboy2548m
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Re: Cough cough

Postby flyboy2548m » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:14 am

Airbus is taking this issue seriously enough to where they issued both an OB as well as a new recommended reporting procedure to deal with fume events. They seem to primarily attribute this to APU oil which apparently under very certain circumstances can get into the bleed air system EVEN IF THE APU IS NOT RUNNING. They are pursuing reported data on these events very aggressively, kudos to them for that.

I myself have not (knock on wood) experienced any such misfortunes so far. It does bear mentioning that the extreme incident described by Capt Mustache stands by its lonesome out of many millions of flight hours.
Chief Pilot/ACJ Program Manager, Vandelay Industries, Inc


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