THERE HAS BEEN A NEAR TOTAL INCIDENT OF STRANGENESS...

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3WE
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THERE HAS BEEN A NEAR TOTAL INCIDENT OF STRANGENESS...

Postby 3WE » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:55 pm

Ok, apologies if I missed or forgot this 'incident 'from 2015.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRs_aT6cklY

AND so many CRAZY questions.

1. How in the hell do you get stuck circling Fargo, ND? (This is the real question). I know this place handles airline flights and is maybe sort of a one-runway operation...and I can imagine weather and all....but still...seems strange...

2. The attitude of ATC also seems a bit insane...seems like if an airliner says he's low on fuel, you maybe FIRST HELP HIM and then SECONDLY maybe discuss the need for an emergency (or you explain why someone else has a bigger emergency and send them to up or down the river...).

3. I am also tempted to question the pilot's attitude...although maybe they were using cowboy improvisation to add common sense to the situation instead of total black and white procedure...They were polite, but I wonder if they should not have simply gone nuclear right then and there (unless they were somehow remiss in getting to the low fuel status).

4. Someone got a new phone number and Allegient ops didn't get the memo????? Huhwuh??? Ok, maybe the media over hyped this exchange and maybe it simply was the pilots calling in to say, hey, ops needs your phone number (sort of).
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Not_Karl
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Re: THERE HAS BEEN A NEAR TOTAL INCIDENT OF STRANGENESS...

Postby Not_Karl » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:37 pm

Well... Pilots are stupid, ATC guys are stupid. The only thing missing here was a stupid, violent, tiny genitaled cop.
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3WE
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Re: THERE HAS BEEN A NEAR TOTAL INCIDENT OF STRANGENESS...

Postby 3WE » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:15 pm

Well... Pilots are stupid, ATC guys are stupid. The only thing missing here was a stupid, violent, tiny genitaled cop.
I'm sure there are more things.

Including, but not limited to:

-Did the pilots use rudder inputs in any way resembling "you do what you need to do"?
-Make any mistakes on a car, bicycle, tricycle, or Mattel, Cheap Composite, Big Wheel?
-Do anything instinctively based on broadly applicable fundamentals as opposed to reciting the exact checklist item for that plane, along with cryptic acronyms?
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Gabriel
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Re: THERE HAS BEEN A NEAR TOTAL INCIDENT OF STRANGENESS...

Postby Gabriel » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:04 am

1. How in the hell do you get stuck circling Fargo, ND? (This is the real question). I know this place handles airline flights and is maybe sort of a one-runway operation...and I can imagine weather and all....but still...seems strange...
Did you watch the video you linked?

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ocelot
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Re: THERE HAS BEEN A NEAR TOTAL INCIDENT OF STRANGENESS...

Postby ocelot » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:34 am

Still, so much WTF. Beginning with: given that the airport was in the middle of a scheduled closing known in advance for months, how did dispatch let them go? And continuing with: if by "bingo" he mean "need to divert", why didn't he just bloody well divert? Sure maybe it looks bad, but then, so does declaring an emergency.

Also, I find it odd there doesn't seem to be any trace of this incident on avherald; does it not meet Simon's criteria? (It also doesn't seem to exist on pprune...)

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3WE
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Re: THERE HAS BEEN A NEAR TOTAL INCIDENT OF STRANGENESS...

Postby 3WE » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:05 pm

1. How in the hell do you get stuck circling Fargo, ND? (This is the real question). I know this place handles airline flights and is maybe sort of a one-runway operation...and I can imagine weather and all....but still...seems strange...
Did you watch the video you linked?
Ok, the first time, I chose not to listen to the talking heads of the media (who did not fail to misrepresent and embellish a few things- (OMG, the blue angels had to divert from their practice routine...such drama to make them land or go fly a downwind leg to let a plane load of gambled-out NDorwegians land :shock: :o :shock: :o .))

Ok, they took off late and arrived with the airport closed due to the Blue Angels practicing.

So, I'll list some modified questions.

There does appear to be an interesting screw up. I would think that the pilots, dispatchers and maybe even ATC? were all guilty of letting the plane depart. Seems like a most interesting failure of a double or triple-redundant procedure, maybe with a hole in the Swiss cheese around dispatch calling the airport?

Part of me still wants to call a 'strangeness foul' on ATC not being slightly more accommodating- but conversely, the plane guys were specifically NOT_saying the "E-word".
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Re: THERE HAS BEEN A NEAR TOTAL INCIDENT OF STRANGENESS...

Postby Not_Karl » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:58 pm

(...)the plane guys were specifically NOT_saying the "E-word".
Embraer?






:mrgreen:
Junior Janitor, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Environmental Poisoning Assurance department.

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3WE
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Re: THERE HAS BEEN A NEAR TOTAL INCIDENT OF STRANGENESS...

Postby 3WE » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:57 pm

(...)the plane guys were specifically NOT_saying the "E-word".
Embraer?
Actually I think it WAS an Embraer...an MB-80...the one with 5-across seating....looks like a 140, but more of a full-sized airliner.
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Gabriel
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Re: THERE HAS BEEN A NEAR TOTAL INCIDENT OF STRANGENESS...

Postby Gabriel » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:56 am

Part of me still wants to call a 'strangeness foul' on ATC not being slightly more accommodating- but conversely, the plane guys were specifically NOT_saying the "E-word".
The controller could (should?) have declared the plane in fuel emergency.

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3WE
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Re: THERE HAS BEEN A NEAR TOTAL INCIDENT OF STRANGENESS...

Postby 3WE » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:54 pm

Part of me still wants to call a 'strangeness foul' on ATC not being slightly more accommodating- but conversely, the plane guys were specifically NOT_saying the "E-word".
The controller could (should?) have declared the plane in fuel emergency.
Just furthering the discussion: The pilot is responsible for being familiar for all relevant information- including NTOAMs which most likely existed and listed the airport closure...thus they may have been guilty of violations (albeit brain fart violations) for forgetting about the NOTAM.

Unlike Evan- imagine the poor SOB's seeing that their SCHEDULED departure would be affected by the closure...and then FORGOT of the existence of the NOTAM when the flight got delayed...

Nevertheless, Evan, and the FAA would consider this a mess up and might unleash their wrath upon the pilots.

So...bring on the delicate dance...IF we declare an emergency, they WILL ask questions....

IF we sort of hint at tight fuel, but do not declare an emergency, then maybe they won't pry into us screwing up and forgetting the NOTAM.

I always thought that the 'fear of getting caught' may have played a big role in Pinnacle four one oh dude. If they declared an emergency to descend (which unfortunately was SORT OF their only choice), someone might ask how in the hell they arrived at 410 out of energy and plowing through the thin air...Easy to say from the easy chair, but they could have fudged something about having extra fuel or it being warm up there....or maybe tried this approach: We CANNOT hold altitude and must descend...we don't WANT to declare an emergency...but we ARE descending...the air up here is a little too thin and we are a little too heavy...Still hard to reconcile how they literally let it stall while observing the nose up attitude and decaying airspeed.
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