Turbulent Landing

An open discussion of aviation safety related issues.

Moderators: FrankM, el, Dmmoore

User avatar
monchavo
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:21 am

Turbulent Landing

Postby monchavo » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:26 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKBI_bV ... e=youtu.be

This is jolly fierce. Probably the worst I have ever seen.

Comments?

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4636
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby 3WE » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am

1. "Yes" and "Like"

2. General rule: Winds become less turbulent closer to the ground.

3. Among the worst in terms of approach, but a perfectly acceptable, nice touchdown and roll out.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Rabbi O'Genius
Posts: 727
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:37 am
Location: Aquamarine Driller

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:13 pm

2. General rule: Winds become less turbulent closer to the ground.
Absolute rule: At ground level the vertical component of the air movement = 0

Rabbi o'Smartass
......never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. – John Donne

User avatar
Not_Karl
Posts: 2356
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Buenos Aires

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby Not_Karl » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:41 pm

I hope that no drinks were spilled.
Junior Janitor, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Environmental Poisoning Assurance department.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4636
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby 3WE » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:14 pm

2. General rule: Winds become less turbulent closer to the ground.
Absolute rule: At ground level the vertical component of the air movement = 0

Rabbi o'Smartass
1. However the lateral component does not = zero.
2. and 10 feet above the ground, where the wings work,, the wind CAN have a vertical component

3BSmartass ;)
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Rabbi O'Genius
Posts: 727
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:37 am
Location: Aquamarine Driller

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby Rabbi O'Genius » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:24 pm

2. General rule: Winds become less turbulent closer to the ground.
Absolute rule: At ground level the vertical component of the air movement = 0

Rabbi o'Smartass
1. However the lateral component does not = zero.
2. and 10 feet above the ground, where the wings work,, the wind CAN have a vertical component

3BSmartass ;)
One cannot disagree with any of the foregoing statements.
......never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. – John Donne

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4636
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby 3WE » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:30 pm



Absolute rule: At ground level the vertical component of the air movement = 0

Rabbi o'Smartass
1. However the lateral component does not = zero.
2. and 10 feet above the ground, where the wings work,, the wind CAN have a vertical component

3BSmartass ;)
One cannot disagree with any of the foregoing statements.
Especially, but not limited to, the smartassery :mrgreen:
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
flyboy2548m
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
Location: Ormond Beach, FL

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby flyboy2548m » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:43 pm

Absolutely tremendous job by the crew, all kidding aside.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4636
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby 3WE » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:54 pm

Absolutely tremendous job by the crew, all kidding aside.
I am torn by:

The Evan thought: "Isn't there a point when you should just stay on the ground or go someplace else where the winds are better...geemanitly that looks extreme and you'd think there is an elevated risk of some bent metal or tracked up grass/busted runway light..."

VS

My inaccurate view of reality: "We are professional, highly- skilled pilots and can fly down close to the ground and see if the winds become manageable with an excellent safety buffer and competently do one of those go-around things if not...."
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

elaw
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:01 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby elaw » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:58 pm

Absolutely tremendous job by the crew, all kidding aside.
Agreed! There's a lot of discussion of pilots screwing up on this and other fora, much less frequently do we see credit given when it's due.

I think credit should also be given to any of the pax who were able to retain the contents of their stomachs. :lol:

Edit: and those who had to clean up after those who didn't.
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4636
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Cowboy Improvisational Airmanship

Postby 3WE » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:03 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuXH1htEhyc

Was this approach stabilized??? I do not think we were on the centerline EVER...still turning at what? 100 feet?

Ok, trying to be a little bit serious- I am a little surprised he didn't do a little better at having a something of a "final approach leg", nor landing dead-on the centerline...just because isn't that what cool people do? Disclaimer: I would confess, it appears to be perfectly acceptable, competent airmanship- he even dutifully consulted the landing checklist- definite atta-boy in the procedure department!

Back to asshattery- should I post this, there with something about Cowboy unstabilized Approaches to see if the trolling gets any bites?
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Not_Karl
Posts: 2356
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Buenos Aires

Re: Cowboy Improvisational Airmanship

Postby Not_Karl » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:40 am

Back to asshattery- should I post this, there with something about Cowboy unstabilized Approaches to see if the trolling gets any bites?
Do you expect any other answer than "of course!"?
Junior Janitor, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Environmental Poisoning Assurance department.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.

elaw
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:01 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Cowboy Improvisational Airmanship

Postby elaw » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:08 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuXH1htEhyc

Was this approach stabilized??? I do not think we were on the centerline EVER...still turning at what? 100 feet?
We call that the "simulated Kai Tak arrival", where you fly a beautiful approach to a runway then at the last minute change your mind and land on a completely different one. 8-)

Fun fact that I'm sure nobody cares about: a Cape Air flight from HYA to ACK in a plane just like that one is what spurred my interest in light planes and led me to take flying lessons.
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 1791
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby Gabriel » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:12 am

Absolutely tremendous job by the crew, all kidding aside.
Superior pilots use superior judgement to avoid using superior skills.

User avatar
monchavo
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:21 am

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby monchavo » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:25 am

I hope that no drinks were spilled.
I think it's likely that many lunches were spilled, that was a rollercoaster. Nasty.

User avatar
monchavo
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:21 am

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby monchavo » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:26 am

Absolutely tremendous job by the crew, all kidding aside.
Yes, very impressive. But it does beg the question - why - surely that amount of movement and buffeting calls for another go once it has died down a bit.

elaw
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:01 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby elaw » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:54 pm

surely that amount of movement and buffeting calls for another go once it has died down a bit.
We recently had several bouts of weather that brought winds similar to those shown in the video. In at least one case they lasted for a day and a half... that seems like kind of a long time to hold. :mrgreen:
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.

User avatar
flyboy2548m
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
Location: Ormond Beach, FL

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby flyboy2548m » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:14 pm

Absolutely tremendous job by the crew, all kidding aside.
Yes, very impressive. But it does beg the question - why - surely that amount of movement and buffeting calls for another go once it has died down a bit.
No.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4636
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby 3WE » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:42 pm

Absolutely tremendous job by the crew, all kidding aside.
Yes, very impressive. But it does beg the question - why - surely that amount of movement and buffeting calls for another go once it has died down a bit.
No.
Upon further thought, there tend to be scientifically inspired operational limits that were probably followed here if I were to guess.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 1791
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby Gabriel » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:07 pm

surely that amount of movement and buffeting calls for another go once it has died down a bit.
We recently had several bouts of weather that brought winds similar to those shown in the video. In at least one case they lasted for a day and a half... that seems like kind of a long time to hold. :mrgreen:
Then don't take-off. Take-off is optional. Landing is mandatory.

Unless it was a totally unexpected and unforecasted situation that the pilot and dispatched could not have been aware of. Which I doubt.

I wonder if procedures were violated there (stabilized approach, max crosswind allowed by the operator, etc...)

Don't get me wrong, that looks like a beautiful display of stick-and-rudder skills (although at the same time I wonder if a good part of the motion is not the pilot overreacting, as it is sometimes the case). But if it was avoidable at all, it should have been avoided. Not only it is dangerous, but it must have been a terrible torture for the passengers.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 1791
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby Gabriel » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:08 pm

Upon further thought, there tend to be scientifically inspired operational limits that were probably followed here if I were to guess.
I wonder if the opposite is true.. Stabilized approach? Max crosswind (including gusts)?

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4636
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby 3WE » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:59 pm

***Stabilized approach***
What is a stabilized approach?

That you were not grossly high and fast and behind on duties and checklists but instead are within a good range of height and speed for most of the approach (or at a declared ‘safety point’)?

OR

Rock solid, minimally deviating airspeed, attitude, heading and ‘glideslope’ with minimal control input effort?

Evan mentality of a written rule or the fundamental of are you fat, dumb and comfortably in control?
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Not_Karl
Posts: 2356
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Buenos Aires

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby Not_Karl » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:40 pm

Plot twist: There was no wind, the movements of the aeroplanie are the result of rudder reversals and other monkeying by stupid pilots.
Junior Janitor, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Environmental Poisoning Assurance department.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 1791
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby Gabriel » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:56 pm

***Stabilized approach***
What is a stabilized approach?
https://flightsafety.org/files/alar_bn7 ... edappr.pdf

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4636
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: Turbulent Landing

Postby 3WE » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:33 am

***Stabilized approach***
What is a stabilized approach?
https://flightsafety.org/files/alar_bn7 ... edappr.pdf
So, the Evanie, Regulatory, Written, meet A, B, C, D, at altitude X...

Not so much 'comfortably in-control' with fat, dumb and happy margins...
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.


Return to “Aviation Safety Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest