I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

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3WE
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I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby 3WE » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:05 am

Maybe just watch the damn ASI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwSSWg3K9Qw

I concede, the CRM might be a tad off...

Then again, if two dudes can't maintain a healthy airspeed...
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Not_Karl
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Re: I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby Not_Karl » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:34 am

I like the -"should we go around?" -"no" moment.
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Gabriel
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Re: I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby Gabriel » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:46 am

I like the -"should we go around?" -"no" moment.
Here you have the answer to that question
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqFTD-Bqwl8

(note the cameo appearance of an Aoerlineas Argentinas plane)

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Not_Karl
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Re: I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby Not_Karl » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:16 am

(note the cameo appearance of an Aoerlineas Argentinas plane)
Skyteam livery, Not_Nair worthy :( .
Junior Janitor, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Environmental Poisoning Assurance department.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.

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3WE
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Re: I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby 3WE » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:34 pm

I like the -"should we go around?" -"no" moment.
Just to be argumentative- I see NO reason to go around...

I just want to understand THIS procedure: "Should we stop monitoring airspeed" "Yes".

That along with the basic fundamental of Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.

Of course, that has no relevance to type specific procedures associated with that goofy FedEx package hauler aircraft.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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reubee
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Re: I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby reubee » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:40 am

Just to be argumentative- I see NO reason to go around...

I just want to understand THIS procedure: "Should we stop monitoring airspeed" "Yes".
you aren't going around when you detect something is wrong the flaps then? so that you can in particular ensure you are monitoring your speed against the actual conditions of the airplane then?
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Not_Karl
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Re: I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby Not_Karl » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:00 am

I just want to understand THIS procedure: "Should we stop monitoring airspeed" "Yes".
Sometimes, when I notice something wrong and I don't know how/want to fix it, I turn my attention away and wait for it to fix itself (or fail catastrophically). Maybe there's an aeroplanie equivalent of that procedure?
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3WE
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Re: I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby 3WE » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:06 pm

Just to be argumentative- I see NO reason to go around...

I just want to understand THIS procedure: "Should we stop monitoring airspeed" "Yes".
you aren't going around when you detect something is wrong the flaps then? so that you can in particular ensure you are monitoring your speed against the actual conditions of the airplane then?
Apologies, not only did I make an over statement, I made an absolute statement.

More accurate: I don't know that the decision to continue was all that bad. (Of course, that's less argumentative.)

There's that Air Alaska crash, where PERHAPS if they just diverted and promptly landed with the jammed stabilizer, undead of jacking around (bad pun) with the trim...

Although compromised- the FedEx plane seemed controllable, and it's a little plane and a long runway...

If you have something big going on-get on the ground asaRp and don't let the problem get worse.

I understand the counter argument to not force a landing when you have the option to go around and get things sorted out.

And, I agree that the CRM got a bit frazzled- of course, that's arm chair quarterbacking...

But, go around or not, I do have an obsession that air speed is important.
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ocelot
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Re: I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby ocelot » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:10 am

No-flaps approaches have different reference speeds, different braking requirements, etc. If you haven't briefed this (which you won't have), unless there's some reason to the contrary, like a mess of cautions about hydraulics, you should go around and do the proper preparation. Like this: http://avherald.com/h?article=4b5350ac&opt=0

That's assuming their approach was otherwise ok, which it wasn't.

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Not_Karl
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Re: I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby Not_Karl » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:17 pm

No-flaps approaches have different reference speeds, different braking requirements, etc. If you haven't briefed this (which you won't have), unless there's some reason to the contrary, like a mess of cautions about hydraulics, you should go around and do the proper preparation. Like this: http://avherald.com/h?article=4b5350ac&opt=0

That's assuming their approach was otherwise ok, which it wasn't.
I wonder how many bring-a-hostie buttons were repeatedly pressed by aeroplanie-enthusiast passengers noticing the retracted flaps...
...the crew announced they were having some technical problem and needed to check procedures and do some calculations.
Evanie is going to like this.
Junior Janitor, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Environmental Poisoning Assurance department.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.

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3WE
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Re: I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby 3WE » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:40 pm

No-flaps approaches have different reference speeds, different braking requirements, etc. If you haven't briefed this (which you won't have), unless there's some reason to the contrary, like a mess of cautions about hydraulics, you should go around and do the proper preparation. Like this: http://avherald.com/h?article=4b5350ac&opt=0

That's assuming their approach was otherwise ok, which it wasn't.
The flaps don’t move is one thing...but a bizzare asymmetrical contol problem that you hope doesn’t get worse (repeating, Air Alaska jackscrew) and you’re in a pissy little turboprop landing on a loooonnnngggg runway...

...and repeating: Airspeed is life.

I am not going to declare a cowboy monkey improvisation foul (and associated public physical punishment) for continuing.
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ocelot
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Re: I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby ocelot » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:18 am

I am not going to declare a cowboy monkey improvisation foul (and associated public physical punishment) for continuing.
The report did 8-)

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3WE
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Re: I am tired of hearing about unstabilized approaches...

Postby 3WE » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:48 pm

I am not going to declare a cowboy monkey improvisation foul (and associated public physical punishment) for continuing.
The report did 8-)
Noted.

What impact does that have on one offering up unfounded opinions without reading the final report?
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.


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