Landing on the wrong strip of parallel pavement.

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3WE
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Landing on the wrong strip of parallel pavement.

Postby 3WE » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:09 pm

Ok, we (I) want to offer up some safety suggestions (including general procedures) from the parlour arm-chair world.

These things are continuing with some frequency (cue classic arguments that it's statistically dang near nothing vs. the counter argument that someday we might a much less cool on-runway collision than the one we recently saw)

"Always" use a magenta line is, of course a good one...Of course, I get it that sometimes we cannot always count on a localizer or GPS or whatever.

However, after much meditation- why are we not_using approach lights and Runway End Identifier lights...here's what my B-Sxpertise is saying.

Ok, I am sure we ARE using these things, but maybe it gets elevated to a Evan/3BS fundamental thing that you "always" do instead of whatever it is that we do now.

Anything you land on must have an "special" light turned on (like approach lights in particular). (This would discriminate runways from taxiways).

And for confusing layouts with parallel runways (Late night landings on Inner runways at ATL or DFW or ETC- the "normal landing" runway has approach lights, the "normal takeoff runway" has official FAA "Runway End Identifier Lights". Same deal with the recent deal with the closed/blacked out runway- could it not have had approach lights OR REIL's to confirm where to land?

Landing crews must brief for what they will see on the way in: A runway with approach lights, OR a runway with REILs- and that maybe they verbally confirm that the light show = what it is supposed to be.

Would this be perfect? Probably not.

Would this "greatly reduce" our occasional wrong-runway-visual-landing incidents?
Quote = Flyboy, after he reads this post:
Your suggestion is duly noted.
[/quote)

Yes, no, maybe?
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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3WE
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Re: Landing on the wrong strip of parallel pavement.

Postby 3WE » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:28 pm

I failed to mention ANOTHER set of Acronym-Lights...The PAPI-VASI thingies.

I already know there is variability in their placement (left side, right side, both).

I will fall short of suggesting rules of thumb, but again, my Evan-right-runway checklist.

Do we have the right runway tuned:

A. Yes -Quick check that the approach lights or REILS are correct.
B. No, we are doing this visually
-Is this an extra tricky airport
-Are the approach lights right
-Are the VASI's right.

And repeating from above and other posts- Flyboy may tell us that this is basically ALREADY in use (albeit in a more professional and cooler manner than I propose).

Nevertheless- my point is 1. These screw ups are happening occasionally and 2. I am not aware of a formal "are we really really aiming for the right runway" procedure. (and some of these incidents suggest there is not).

Where do I send the letter?
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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flyboy2548m
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Re: Landing on the wrong strip of parallel pavement.

Postby flyboy2548m » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:13 pm

no.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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3WE
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Re: Landing on the wrong strip of parallel pavement.

Postby 3WE » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:34 pm

no.
Please throw me a bone and briefly discuss this.

We have instances of two folks- emphasis on two- mistaking a taxiway for a runway.

-Happened at Atlanta
-Happened at San Francisco

On the occasion I get to see runways out of a side window, I can see how it's not uber-obvious which ones are for landing and which are for taxiing.

And, I get it that you almost always have the localizer tuned in...and that this is all about the "ALMOST" category.

When someone isn't following the electronic magic, it seems like we aren't quite where we should be on backups and confirmations...
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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flyboy2548m
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Re: Landing on the wrong strip of parallel pavement.

Postby flyboy2548m » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:07 pm


Please throw me a bone and briefly discuss this.

When someone isn't following the electronic magic, it seems like we aren't quite where we should be on backups and confirmations...
I'll pass. Just ask Evan, he's the expert on autotuning.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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3WE
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Re: Landing on the wrong strip of parallel pavement.

Postby 3WE » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:55 pm

I'll pass. Just ask Evan, he's the expert on autotuning.
No thanks.

I am not an expert on autotuning but I have crashed tricycles, bicycles and cars...
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Not_Karl
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Re: Landing on the wrong strip of parallel pavement.

Postby Not_Karl » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:47 pm

...I have crashed tricycles, bicycles and cars...
Did you died?
Junior Janitor, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Environmental Poisoning Assurance department.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
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3WE
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Re: Landing on the wrong strip of parallel pavement.

Postby 3WE » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:07 am

...I have crashed tricycles, bicycles and cars...
Did you died?
No.

I did gain a little appreciation for human factors.

(And doesn't hurt to have two guys being somewhat anal-retentive about procedures.)

Then again, no harm in them understanding phugoid behavior and had flying and watching airspeed and avoiding relentless pull ups too.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.


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