Ethiopian 737

[3WE]

Additional comment of note:

The stories of suggested cover-ups and bad-looking corporate dynamics continue to ramp up both there and in the occasional media article.

[3WE]

ATL Crew:

[Something about reducing automation down to a Cessna]

Not_noted..,

DULY noted.

[J]

With the 737 Max not expected to return to service for at least several more months I'll note that Spirit Aero Systems continues to ship fuselages to Boeing. I wonder where they are parking all the undelivered new planes?

Here is a photo of 6 more fuselages photographed on June 11. Note that unlike the past, they are not in special train service (see multilevel vehicle car at rear). I suspect Boeing is in no hurry to receive them!

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/699902/

[Gabriel]

Why 4 of them have the windshield installed and 2 not (or perhaps covered)?

[J]

Why 4 of them have the windshield installed and 2 not (or perhaps covered)?

All the flight deck glazing is covered when these are shipped by rail. Here is another view from earlier this year.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/691941/

[Gabriel]

Yes, but that was not the question. Observe that all 6 airframes have something white covering the overwing emergency exits and the movable pane of the cockpit windows. I guess that these parts are missing because they are installed later in the process.

However, 2 of the airframes have ALL cockpit glass panes covered with this white stuff, including the windshield and the fixed window pane.
Why the difference? The picture suggest to me that these 2 airframes have all the cockpit windshield/window missing. But why?

[J]

I suspect the material covering the glazing may just be different - perhaps Verbal can enlighten us.

Here are some additional images that show all windows covered.


Side view: https://www.railpictures.net/photo/500666/

Sad view: https://www.railpictures.net/photo/489029/

[Gabriel]

How we never learned that they lost several fuselages in a train wreck?

Anyway, from 14 fuselages that can be seen in these 4 pictures, 12 of them follow the pattern of white movable pane cocpit windows and non-white covering for fixed-pane cockpit windows and the windshields panes. 2 of them (in the 1st photo) have all the cockpit glass panes covered (or their holes) covered in white. I somehow still think that white = part is missing (not just covered). But it's just a guess. It just makes sense (maybe) that movable parts like overwing exits and sliding cockpit windows be installed later.

[Not_Karl]

How we never learned that they lost several fuselages in a train wreck?

We did:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=287&start=225#p62867
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=287&start=250#p62874

[3WE]

Magazino de vuelo, Augusto, 2019.

Nice summary of all of the Parlour talk posted here and there...(although he doesn't acknowledge us as the source).

-Limited redundancy on DCAS triggers

-Deviation from "the pilot has ultimate over ride" philosophy

-Creepy lack of transparency on the system

-Indications that the Ethiopians followed Evan's procedures

-Some agreement with the Gabrellian takeoff-lots-of-warnings-overload theory.

-No noticeable agreement with the Bobby-contention that the trim off switches are right there where they have always been and where a properly-trained Western pilot would use them and not crash.

[flyboy2548m]

Magazino de vuelo, Augusto, 2019.

Nice summary of all of the Parlour talk posted here and there...(although he doesn't acknowledge us as the source).

-Limited redundancy on DCAS triggers

-Deviation from "the pilot has ultimate over ride" philosophy

-Creepy lack of transparency on the system

-Indications that the Ethiopians followed Evan's procedures

-Some agreement with the Gabrellian takeoff-lots-of-warnings-overload theory.

-No noticeable agreement with the Bobby-contention that the trim off switches are right there where they have always been and where a properly-trained Western pilot would use them and not crash.

Actually not a terrible article, considering the author. He managed to make it not about himself.

[Gabriel]

Revista de vuelo, Augusto, 2019.

[...]

-Deviation from "the pilot has ultimate over ride" philosophy

I would like to see what they mean with that, since the thumb switch does have override powers over the MCAS (it stops the MCAS, acts according to the thumb switch, and keep the MCAS off for the next 5 seconds after releasing the thumb switch, and this can be repeated over and over), the trim cutout switches do kill the trim motor and while the MCAS remains active the trim stops responding to it (but the human pilots and only the human pilots have access to a mechanical alternate mean to control the trim after the cutout switches have been turned off: the trim wheel), and still grabbing the trim wheel firmly will stop the trim motion if it is being commanded by some automation or some fault.

The only case where the pilots will not have the last say on what to do with the trim is when the cutout switch has been turned off and the trim wheel gets impossibly hard to move due to aerodynamic loads caused when the speed is high and trim is way off trim in one direction with the pilots pulling/pushing on the yoke in the opposite direction. But even in this case I would call it a loss of authority and not a loss of human override authority, since there is no system controlling the trim.

[3WE]

Revista de vuelo, Augusto, 2019.

[...]

-Deviation from "the pilot has ultimate over ride" philosophy

I would like to see what they mean with that, since the thumb switch does have override powers over the MCAS

Point taken; however with a HUGE MAJORITY of Boeing history it was click clack and use the steering wheel thingie…

IN THIS CASE, Click Clack steering wheel thingie does not give you pitch control as it always has in the past...the plane dives pretty darn relentlessly- the human over ride is an itty bitty switch on the yoke or Bobby's favorites that sometimes give you a bound up trim wheel.


One of my favorite $30 words: Kinda insidious.

[3WE]

Internet headlines hint at the groundings going into 2020.

Time for a new 3 + 3 airframe. Evan will agree.

[Gabriel]

Internet headlines hint at the groundings going into 2020.

Time for a new 3 + 3 airframe. Evan will agree.

I don't think so. With hundreds of millions dollars invested in development, more than 5000 orders of which almost 400 were already delivered and the rest waiting to be delivered and invoiced (of which hundreds more are finished or almost finished and ready for delivery), and with no competition for the A320 neo that can be ready in less than 10 years, that would be not only to sink all the development and operations money incurred so far, but also killing all the revenue from single-aisles airplanes for the next 10 years and then leave the company in a very poor position to start selling again in that market (after all of the airlines moved to an Airbus fleet). That would be "curtains for Boeing".

And all for what? The MCAS problem is already solved. The FAA is scrutinizing the type as they never did with a type before, and the same are doing the rest of the certification authorities around the World, and it seems that Boeing is in conversations with all of them because Boeing doesn't want to release the plane until they arrive to a fix (the the MCAS and other newly discovered problems) that convinces all (or most) of them that the plane is ready for re-certification. It will take some time (and hence money) but it doesn't seem to be so complicated from the technical point of view.

And with all this worldwide scrutiny like never before seen, this will be an exceptionally trustworthy plane and I don't doubt that it will be as safe as any plane that will end up being a top seller for the next 10 years (when Boeing finally introduces the 3+3 replacement) and will be in operation a few decades after that, being a revenue machine for Boeing and the airlines.

[flyboy2548m]

Internet headlines hint at the groundings going into 2020.

Time for a new 3 + 3 airframe. Evan will agree.

I would say anything Evan agrees with is likely automatically horseshit.

[3WE]

Internet headlines hint at the groundings going into 2020.

Time for a new 3 + 3 airframe. Evan will agree.

I would say anything Evan agrees with is likely automatically horseshit.

Horseshit is a nice varied brown color...not black and white enough- maybe penguin skinnings?

[elaw]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/boeing-7 ... 3e6072bda5

[Gabriel]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/boeing-7 ... 3e6072bda5

Incredible and as expected at the same time.