2 former pilots...

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Gabriel
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2 former pilots...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:35 am

Former pilots is what, one would suppose, these 2 pilots will become soon.

https://www.infobae.com/deportes-2/2019 ... -un-avion/

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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby Not_Karl » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:00 am

Are they Chickens or Manurers?

(For those unable or unwilling to use Google Translate, the pilots of an Aerolíneas Argentinas/Austral flight filmed the opening of a real-actual-true Not_American football match when they were about to land (the stadium is near AEP) and now they will have to expalin their actions to the airline ).
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:08 am

Are they Chickens or Manurers?

(For those unable or unwilling to use Google Translate, the pilots of an Aerolíneas Argentinas/Austral flight filmed the opening of a real-actual-true Not_American football match when they were about to land (the stadium is near AEP) and now they will have to expalin their actions to the airline ).
Yes... the pilots... both of them... at the same time... taking pictures / videos and looking out the side window... with the plane in short final and 500 ft AGL.

I hope that AR comes up with something better than "these are 2 very experienced pilots, no procedure was broken and the safety of the flight was never compromised". I would hate to desire stop flying Aerolíneas Argentinas / Austral.

How about saying "We are very sorry, this is unacceptable, it should not have happened, and we are going to make sure it doesn't happen again" and then sacking them and filing criminal charges for endangering a flight? And the ANAC (Argie version of the FAA) revoking their licences ethereally?

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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby Not_Karl » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:16 am

They were too distracted with the fireworks to make any stupid/dangerous control input. I say the flight was safer this way! :clap:
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby elaw » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:15 pm

Uh... either Google Translate is confused, or they have some very strange incident investigation procedures in South America:
Image1.png
Image1.png (10.57 KiB) Viewed 10433 times
:lol:
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby Not_Karl » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:08 pm

Uh... either Google Translate is confused, or they have some very strange incident investigation procedures in South America:
Image1.png

:lol:
Read "...they explained that the pilots shall make a deposition and, then, it will be determined if they are liable to a sanction, hopefully physical punishment"
Fixed (i hope, had to Google as I don't know legal terminology... in any language) and enhanced.
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby 3WE » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:05 pm

The pilots should be fired NOT for simultaneous filming, BUT for deciding to SHARE the video.

THAT is an exabit of dangerous decision making.

Beautiful clear night, ILS probably tuned in- autopilot likely on, full situational awareness of air traffic via the radio, DDGAIMs engaged, and too far out to discern school busses full of nuns on the runway...there really is no compromise to safety.
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby elaw » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:25 pm

Did you forget to use blue font?

I'm fine with pilots pretending they're Ken Burns during certain phases of flight, especially in aircraft with few or no pax in sparsely-populated areas (or areas only populated by fish). But in an airliner at 500' on final in a densely-populated area? HELL NO!
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby flyboy2548m » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:45 pm

Hey, Gabie, don't forget to post this on like 9 more fora at least.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby 3WE » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:50 pm

Did you forget to use blue font?
Are you Boeing Bobby? :mrgreen:

1. Yes, an UBER violation of the spirit sterile cockpit / 110% focus on flying while on final approach.

2. Scientifically/Devil's advocate, is there ANY evidence of them not having full situational awareness?

3. You did get the ironing in my statement- maybe there was no risk to the filming, but WTF did they THINK would happen when "the world" found out they had violated item #1 above and that 2 doesn't matter with the HR department nor the court of public opinion.

4. My odds of landing a job on SNL (or flying a 747)...greater than the odds of those dudes crashing because they were filming. :lol:
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby elaw » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:06 pm

Oh I totally got the ironing!

But IMO, it's not possible to be 100% aware of any situation and aware of another situation at the same time. If any of their brains' "CPU cycles" were devoted to watching a fútbol game, those cycles were not dedicated to flying the airplane.

Let me put it another way... we've all seen lots of evidence of people's operation of motor vehicles being negatively affected by distractions like mobile phone calls, texting, surfing the web while driving, etc. etc. Operating a commercial aircraft 1) is way more difficult than driving a car and ii) generally has much worse outcomes when not done right. So distracting activities that are (or should be) considered unacceptable when driving a car are 100x more unacceptable when piloting an aircraft.
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:06 pm

The pilots should be fired NOT for simultaneous filming, BUT for deciding to SHARE the video.

THAT is an exabit of dangerous decision making.

Beautiful clear night, ILS probably tuned in- autopilot likely on, full situational awareness of air traffic via the radio, DDGAIMs engaged, and too far out to discern school busses full of nuns on the runway...there really is no compromise to safety.
Let's put it this way: If the company says "no activities unrelated to the operation of the airplane below 10000 ft" and "use of PEDs forbidden in the cockpit" and I have not one but both pilots simultaneously videoing the fireworks in a stadium thought the side window in a final approach at 500ft for no other reason that their personal enjoyment, then they knowingly and intentionally violated 2 company procedures. That is enough to sack them, I don't care how beautiful the approach resulted.

And if they then share the video, then not only that puts their decision making in question again, but they are also affecting the image of the company. Sacked again.

Airlines must have zero tolerance for intentional stupidity. That's the culture.

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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby 3WE » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:09 pm

Let me put it another way... we've all seen lots of evidence of people's operation of motor vehicles being negatively affected by distractions like mobile phone calls, texting, surfing the web while driving, etc. etc. Operating a commercial aircraft 1) is way more difficult than driving a car and ii) generally has much worse outcomes when not done right. So distracting activities that are (or should be) considered unacceptable when driving a car are 100x more unacceptable when piloting an aircraft.
No argument, except for the case of argument.
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:11 pm

Hey, Gabie, don't forget to post this on like 9 more fora at least.
Why do you always bring this up? What is the problem if I post the same aviation news, that I consider interesting and that it may interest others, in the 2 aviation forums where I participate and that share only few members?

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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby Not_Karl » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:38 pm

Let's put it this way: If the company says "no activities unrelated to the operation of the airplane below 10000 ft" and "use of PEDs forbidden in the cockpit" and I have not one but both pilots simultaneously videoing the fireworks in a stadium thought the side window in a final approach at 500ft for no other reason that their personal enjoyment, then they knowingly and intentionally violated 2 company procedures.
Maybe they wanted to draw attention to the dangers of having a firework show so close to an airfield!
And if they then share the video, then not only that puts their decision making in question again, but they are also affecting the image of the company.
At least they didn't invite a celebrity to the cockpit, make sexist/distasteful remarks and make her do control inputs while she filmed the whole sequence... They're getting better!
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby 3WE » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:15 pm

Airlines must have zero tolerance for intentional stupidity. That's the culture.
Ok, Evan.

Forgive my interest in "breaking things down for analysis"

Gross violation of well-intended procedures and an inferred recklessness? Yes.

Elaw's challenge that I can't say there's ZERO distraction from awareness? Yes

Significant increase to risk? Pontificate all you want, the argument is a very weak one. It is extremely likely that the pilots are glancing out the front window and at the instruments, and monitoring glidepath, speed, power and attitude....possibly more than Hui Thieu Lo did on one Sunny Sunday afternoon when we used to do touch and goes in 172s.
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:31 pm

Airlines must have zero tolerance for intentional stupidity. That's the culture.
Ok, Evan.

Forgive my interest in "breaking things down for analysis"

Gross violation of well-intended procedures and an inferred recklessness? Yes.

Elaw's challenge that I can't say there's ZERO distraction from awareness? Yes

Significant increase to risk? Pontificate all you want, the argument is a very weak one. It is extremely likely that the pilots are glancing out the front window and at the instruments, and monitoring glidepath, speed, power and attitude....possibly more than Hui Thieu Lo did on one Sunny Sunday afternoon when we used to do touch and goes in 172s.
I agree with all of that, but if you allow these things to happen, then other things will happen. I don't think, and never said anything to the effect, that everybody on and below the plane was very close to experience a fiery death, not at all. But that is unacceptable BEHAVIOR.

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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby 3WE » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:38 pm

...never said anything to the effect...
Well, I guess I DID say they shouldn't be fired for filming, and Eric wondered if I should have used blue font, so I'll ask, "Are you Boeing Bobby?"

I need to stop being so serious all the time...
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:00 pm

...never said anything to the effect...
Well, I guess I DID say they shouldn't be fired for filming, and Eric wondered if I should have used blue font, so I'll ask, "Are you Boeing Bobby?"

I need to stop being so serious all the time...
No, I did understand your Westinghouse brake RTO joke.
But I think they should be fired. EVEN if an accident was extremely unlikely.

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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby flyboy2548m » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:00 pm

Hey, Gabie, don't forget to post this on like 9 more fora at least.
Why do you always bring this up? What is the problem if I post the same aviation news, that I consider interesting and that it may interest others, in the 2 aviation forums where I participate and that share only few members?
Because your pathetic attempts at being relevant are just that.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:03 pm

Hey, Gabie, don't forget to post this on like 9 more fora at least.
Why do you always bring this up? What is the problem if I post the same aviation news, that I consider interesting and that it may interest others, in the 2 aviation forums where I participate and that share only few members?
Because your pathetic attempts at being relevant are just that.
Well, I seldom open new threads. The few times I do, it is because I consider the matter to be particularly interesting. So I will keep opening them in both sites so I can share them with both groups of people. Do you have any problem with that? Good luck. You want to keep commenting that I posted the same thing in both sites each time I do that? Be my guest.

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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby flyboy2548m » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:08 pm



Why do you always bring this up? What is the problem if I post the same aviation news, that I consider interesting and that it may interest others, in the 2 aviation forums where I participate and that share only few members?
Because your pathetic attempts at being relevant are just that.
Well, I seldom open new threads. The few times I do, it is because I consider the matter to be particularly interesting. So I will keep opening them in both sites so I can share them with both groups of people. Do you have any problem with that? Good luck. You want to keep commenting that I posted the same thing in both sites each time I do that? Be my guest.
Thanks for the permission, O The Great Educator of the Even Greater Unwashed!
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:15 pm



Because your pathetic attempts at being relevant are just that.
Well, I seldom open new threads. The few times I do, it is because I consider the matter to be particularly interesting. So I will keep opening them in both sites so I can share them with both groups of people. Do you have any problem with that? Good luck. You want to keep commenting that I posted the same thing in both sites each time I do that? Be my guest.
Thanks for the permission, O The Great Educator of the Even Greater Unwashed!
You are welcome.

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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby 3WE » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:38 pm

Because your pathetic attempts at being relevant are just that.
I am often guilty of the double post, but try to be different about it.

I do have a certain sense of guilt about it.

I do have different objectives- Here, there is a little bit more maturity in the discussion. Yes significant corniness, but also things can be of a surprisingly higher level.

As goofy as "ban all airplanes" is, it contains a very mature admission that excrement transpires, in spite of our best efforts to prevent it. Of course, we are always aware that our best efforts to prevent it is a big fallacy. Yes we want to know why and wonder IF something could be done...but the tone has that subtle difference.

There, there may be the objective of getting those folks riled up, and, for some reason, we don't bitch as much about customer service here.

IMO, it's a very gray, elusive thing about when to and when not to double post, with restraint (which I may lack) being key.
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Re: 2 former pilots...

Postby Not_Karl » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:39 am

As goofy as "ban all airplanes" is, it is the only solution.
Fixed.
International Ban ALL Aeroplanies Association, founder and president.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.


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