Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Discussion of aviation issues which are not safety related (airline operations, pilot contracts, aviation industry news, etc.)

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monchavo
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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby monchavo » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:15 am

Found it. It was the Carvair. Ridiculous thing.
The Carvair had rather more than two engines. The Bristol 170 didn't.
My memory of the beast was hazy. It was the bulbous shape and dimensions that were key to the look.

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:12 pm

Space shuttle carrier 747 prepares for 8-mile move
A Boeing 747 would normally fly the eight miles from Ellington Field to Space Center Houston in just a couple of minutes. But a very special 747 will take two nights to make that trip.

"Even in a state as big as Texas, a move of this size is unprecedented," Houston Mayor Annise Parker said in a Space Center Houston news release about the "big move" Tuesday.

The 318,000-pound aircraft is one of two 747-100s that were adapted to ferry the space shuttle orbiters between landing sites and the Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

Houston didn't win a competition for one of the retired orbiters. In fact, it had to send the full-fuselage mockup used to train astronauts to Seattle's Museum of Flight. So it plans to mount the space shuttle replica Independence atop the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft to create an attraction that will be taller than an eight-story building, featuring interactive exhibits inside the jet and shuttle replica. It's scheduled to open next year.

A Boeing team is now disassembling the 747 into nine big pieces (and many smaller bits) for the trip to the space center. Even so, the journey will require a 1,000-foot convoy, moving at walking speed. The largest piece will be the fuselage, which is 25 feet wide, 35 feet tall and 190 feet long.

The move is scheduled to start at 9 p.m. on April 28, pause early the following morning and resume at 9 that night.

Once at Space Center Houston, the same Boeing team will reassemble the aircraft, a process expected to take 44 days.

Click through the gallery above to see images of the disassembly work, the space shuttle replica Independence and the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft during its heyday.



http://www.seattlepi.com/business/boein ... to-6076885

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:59 pm

Here is a recent article discussing Boeing's strategy to increase the range of the Intercontinental while it awaits the return of the air freight market.
Excerpt:
FARNBOROUGH: Landing gear tweak key to 747-8 future in passenger market

Finding customers may depend on whether the company can increase the range of the passenger variant by 500nm (925km), putting flights from China to the US east coast and from the Middle East to the US west coast within its reach.

Adding more range – and weight – means the fate of the 747 programme may come down to a singular engineering question: how much more load can be absorbed by the jumbo jet’s landing gear?

All of the other technical questions are already answered. Thanks to an initiative formerly named Project Ozark, Boeing knows how it can add range to the 747-8I. The now-nameless initiative involves several aerodynamic tweaks and raising the maximum take-off weight by nearly 7% to 472t, says Eric Lindblad, Boeing’s vice-president and general manager of the 747-8 programme.

As the aircraft weight increases, the landing gear must also be strengthened. Boeing is still working to solve that problem.

“We think we can get there with a few minor modifications,” Lindblad says. “It really gets down to how we clear the structural margins. We think there’s a way there. I can’t say today that we’ve cleared the margins as of right now.”

* * *
Although demand for air freight is growing, it could take at least two years to burn through an excess of air freight supply in the market. For several years, freight airlines have parked large aircraft in storage. Many of those aircraft will have to be absorbed into the market before orders for new freighters will match the 5% growth in overall demand, Lindblad says.

Even then, there is no guarantee that cargo carriers will order the four-engined 747-8 versus the more efficient, twin-engined 777 Freighter.

The key to extending the 747-8 backlog for at least two more years lies in the passenger market.

“We just want to sell more passenger (variants],” Shanahan says. “I think people are going to buy it, but they haven’t bought it. So we’ve got to go sell some more.”

So far, Boeing has sold only one 747-8 in 2014, and that was a VIP version of the passenger variant. Lindblad, however, remains optimistic that the second half will be more fruitful. Last year, he notes, Boeing had sold only three 747-8s in the first half, but finished the year with a total of 17 orders signed in 2013.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... er-400464/

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:44 am

Discussion about first 747 undergoing cosmetic restoration with photos.

http://www.seattlepi.com/business/boein ... to-6639466

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:48 pm

More on the Restoration including photos of the groovy upper deck lounge.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinth ... /17696495/

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby 3WE » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:04 pm

More on the Restoration including photos of the groovy upper deck lounge.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinth ... /17696495/
OMG! The instrument panel is full of circular, dialed instruments.
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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:47 pm

Here is an interesting read with photographs about the Chief Engineer and the Chief Pilot;
The Legendary Men Behind the Historic Boeing 747

Excerpt:
According to Irving, “It was a large program, and Joe was in the middle of the chain of command, and whenever there was a critical decision to be made, and no one else wanted to make it, Joe [lead engineering team] made it. He was the one in the end who signed off on everything, and took full responsibility."
* * *
You will not find that speed in today’s environment. "It was a massive undertaking, and at one point, we were spending $5 million a day on the project. I was directed to cut 1,000 engineers by leadership, and I polled my crew and asked what they can do without; they said, ‘nothing, we need 800 additional engineers!'” said Sutter. “We were relegated to an old warehouse on the Duwamish River before the Everett factory was built, while the team heading up the government-sponsored SST program were housed in brand-new offices and buildings.”

When asked about how he felt being “relegated to a side project” compared to the high-profile SST program, Sutter replied, “We had a job to do, and we were going to build an airplane that did that job. We were going to get our job done, and we had the attitude that if we did a good job, the plane would have a great future.”

(Perhaps referring to Verbal): "...The most important thing about designing an airplane is making sure you have people with brains doing the design work.”
* * *
“Automation does not always make things better when things go to hell,” added Sutter. “If something goes wrong, the Boeing philosophy is to have the instrumentation tell the pilot what the hell he should do, and when. The other major approach, where the computer can overrule the pilot, is not a good approach in the long run.”
http://www.airlinereporter.com/2014/10/ ... oeing-747/

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby Verbal » Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:34 pm

(Perhaps referring to Verbal): "...The most important thing about designing an airplane is making sure you have people with brains doing the design work.”
Concur.
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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:30 pm

Here are a few recent news stories.

Boeing 747 gets extended operations approval
The Boeing Co. announced on Wednesday that its 747-8 has received 330-minute Extended Operations (ETOPS) approval from the Federal Aviation Administration.

The company said in a press release that its the first time a four-engine aircraft has gotten that type of approval.

The FAA recently expanded its ETOPS requirements to four-engine aircraft built after February 2015.

The approval allows for the 747 to fly 330 minutes from an en-route alternate airport, meaning operators can fly long-distance routes more directly.
http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/news ... roval.html

Silk Way West orders three Boeing 747-8 freighters
http://atwonline.com/airframes/silk-way ... freighters

Atlas Air will order more Boeing 747-8 at some point - CEO
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/ ... E120150317

Cargolux CEO: more orders for Boeing 747-8 freighters coming
http://www.king5.com/story/tech/science ... /24675881/

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:58 pm

Ex JAL 747-400 now turned into a water bomber.
With Photographs
Excerpt:
Once it begins commercial operations, Wheeler expects to secure several on-call service contracts with various entities worldwide. He expects enough demand between firefighting in the northern and southern hemispheres, plus oil slick dispersion and commercial liquid transport, to justify a fleet of "at least three aircraft, and maybe more”.

“It’s based here in the US and it will probably be on-call here more than anywhere else, but we have been to Australia, Germany, Croatia, France and the European Union in Brussels discussing this and the reception has been superb,” says Wheeler. “Being global and having a broader business plan than just wildfire fighting makes this an incredibly viable product and service offering to the whole world.”

The eight main tanks can carry 74,200l (19,600gal) of water, retardant or oil dispersant. Powered by four General Electric CF6-80-B1F engines, the 747-400 can carry that load over 4,000nm (7,400km) at speeds approaching 520kt (960km/h).

Wheeler notes that despite its sheer size and capacity, the SuperTanker is safer than many direct-attack water bombers for people on the ground, because its payload is dispersed over a wider area – more like heavy rain than a water dump.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... or-423458/

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:17 pm

How Iron Maiden Made the Boeing 747 Badass Again With a pilot for a singer, it's a match made in metal heaven
Celebrity endorsements are a cornerstone of advertising nowadays, but an industrial manufacturing giant like Boeing seldom gets the chance to play that game. What celebrity is going to tout stuff like cargo hold capacity and cruising range?

Well, Boeing's chance came several weeks ago, when one of its 747-400 jumbo jets touched down at the company's manufacturing plant in Everett, Wash., with Captain Bruce Dickinson at the controls.

Dickinson is better known as the frontman for Iron Maiden, the British heavy-metal band that's sold over 90 million records in a career spanning four decades.

The 57-year-old Dickinson's talent for soaring applies to more than his voice: Since the 1990s, he's also held a commercial pilot's license. Iron Maiden is currently in the middle of a six-continent, 35-city tour in a chartered 747. And Dickinson is doing all the flying.

http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising- ... ain-171917

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby ocelot » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:14 am

Now Boeing's talking about shutting down production... doubtless just talk, all of this is public posturing, but still, a little worrisome.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/boeing- ... -1.3698681

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby elaw » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:28 pm

And Dickinson is doing all the flying.
Heh... it's funny to think about the conversation that probably took place in a conference room somewhere:

"Hi, we're a heavy metal band and want to lease a 747 for our upcoming tour"

"Okay, that's going to be $XXXXXX all-inclusive - fuel, maintenance, crew..."

"We don't need a crew, we'll fly it ourselves"

"O RLY??"
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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby flyboy2548m » Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:15 pm

And Dickinson is doing all the flying.
Heh... it's funny to think about the conversation that probably took place in a conference room somewhere:

"Hi, we're a heavy metal band and want to lease a 747 for our upcoming tour"

"Okay, that's going to be $XXXXXX all-inclusive - fuel, maintenance, crew..."

"We don't need a crew, we'll fly it ourselves"

"O RLY??"
It's just a dry lease, not an ACMI arrangement.
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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby Not_Karl » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:40 pm

I always wondered if Bruce Dickinson greeted his passengers with a "scream for me, airplane!" when he was a 767 captain for Astraeus...
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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby elaw » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:38 am

(Insert lame "flying on instruments" joke here...) :mrgreen:
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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:42 pm

Here is a report of an accident that occurred at a gate three years ago that was recently reported. The aircraft rolled forward before it was chocked and the wing root struck a jetway bashing in the leading edge.


Brake failure blamed for United Airlines Boeing 747 crash at Melbourne Airport: ATSB

Excerpt:

BRAKE failure caused a ­United Airlines Boeing 747 to crash into a passenger aerobridge at Melbourne Airport.

A three-year safety investigation found that when the plane carrying 135 passengers stopped at its Tullamarine gate, its parking brake became disengaged before the engines were shut down and nose wheels were chocked.

Four seconds later it began moving forward. It travelled 12m in 15 seconds before its left wing clipped the bridge.

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau’s report found the ground crew had mistakenly flicked the parking guidance system to emergency mode when the plane, from Los Angeles via Sydney, landed on April 22, 2013.

That prevented an alert being triggered.

The Boeing 747 was grounded due to wing damage and the damaged aerobridge had to be withdrawn from service, leading to plane cancellations later that day.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victor ... e8c05d45dd

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:16 pm

Joe Sutter, Who Led an Army in Building Boeing’s Jumbo 747, Dies at 95
Excerpt:

In less time than Magellan spent circumnavigating the globe, Boeing engineers transformed Mr. Sutter’s napkin doodles into the humpbacked, wide-bodied behemoth passenger and cargo plane known as the 747. The plane would transform commercial aviation and shrink the world for millions of passengers by traveling faster and farther than other, conventional jetliners, without having to refuel.
* * *
The aircraft was engineered so meticulously that before the first test flight, on Feb. 9, 1969, Mr. Sutter identified the precise spot on the runway where the wheels of the plane would leave the ground
* * *
Before being named to lead the 747 team, Mr. Sutter had been lauded for contributing to a unique wing design to improve lift on the three-engine 727, which had been built to serve smaller cities. Working on the 737, he helped come up with a design that placed its engines under the wings, allowing for a wider fuselage and greater cargo capacity. That innovation brought him his first patent.
* * *
In 1986 President Ronald Reagan appointed him to a panel investigating the explosion of the space shuttle Challenger. At the time, he expressed amazement that safety standards and management controls in the commercial aviation industry were stronger than those governing NASA.

In an interview with Air & Space magazine in 2007, he reflected on the safety features that his team had incorporated into the 747, acknowledging, proudly, that they were often redundant.

“You know things are going to happen,” he explained, “and sometimes it’s going to be severe. You still should be able to come home.”



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/02/busin ... -well&_r=1

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:15 pm

Here is a typically understated British article about an incident that happened last January when a B747 tried to make like a B52.

Terrified British Airways Boeing 747 passengers were told 'don't rock the plane as you get off' after emergency landing at Heathrow when landing gear failed on BOTH wings


A formal report has blamed a mechanical error 'that caused incorrect rigging of the landing gear lever system after the landing gear control module had been replaced.'

The BA 295 flight had been making its way from London Heathrow to the Chicago O'Hare International Airport.

The plane turned around just south of Iceland after around two hours, due to a technical problem.

Whilst approaching Heathrow, the pilots reported an unsafe gear indication for both main gear and only the nose and body wheels descended.

Twenty minutes later, the Boeing landed safely on only the nose and body wheels after the pilot circled to dump fuel.

There were more than 300 people on board the flight - including 293 passengers and 14 crews members.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... e-off.html

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:36 pm

This is a pretty big deal. UPS just ordered 14 747F's to keep the production line going after Boeing slowed it down to one aircraft per month. Recent articles have rumored Boeing would be shutting down production as its strategy to struggle until the airfreight market improves didn't seem to be working.
The A380, on the other hand continues to languish (as does the 747-8I).


On Thursday, Boeing announced that UPS has placed an order for 14 new 747-8F freighters along with an option for another 14 of the jumbo jets.

With a catalogue price of $379.1 million per plane, the deal could be worth as much as $10.6 billion with the option included.

However, it should be noted that major customers traditionally negotiate substantial discounts over the list price.

"These aircraft are a strategic investment for increased capacity for UPS customers around the globe," said Brendan Canavan, president, UPS Airlines.

"The 747-8 will allow UPS to upsize our network in both new and existing markets."
http://www.businessinsider.com/ups-boei ... er-2016-10

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:02 pm

Boeing has 17 more 747s on order, and at the current production rate of just six airplanes per year, that's less than three years worth of work.

These are not good days for the company's most iconic airplane.

The jumbo jet with a hump is the reason Boeing's Everett plant even exists. The factory was built in the last half of the 1960s as the jet made its first flight in February 1969.

It is an icon, but by the end of 2017, the two U.S. airlines that still fly the Queen of the Skies in scheduled service will retire them. Those airlines are United and Delta. Other foreign carriers fly the jet internationally, including Air China, Korean Air, Lufthansa, and British Airways. Many of those are the new 747-8 Intercontinental. The passenger version is considered all but finished.

But today, the future looks brighter, as Qatar Airways takes delivery of its first 747-8 Freighter. Qatar has another one on order. Later this week, UPS is expected to take the first of 14.

"I don't believe the 747 program is dead," said Akbar Al Baker, who heads Qatar Airways, which calls itself the third largest cargo airline in the world and is a major passenger airline based out of Doha.

Parked at Boeing's delivery center Monday is Boeing's 13th 777 freighter.

The company also disclosed it has ordered four more 777-300 extended range passenger jets at a news conference today.

The future of the 777 seems on fairly solid ground as the company moves closer to building the first of the new composite wing 777X models, for which Qatar is the launch customer, but what about the 747?

"This airplane has a reach niche in the freight market," said Bruce Dickenson, who heads Boeing's 747 and 767 programs. "And the unique capability it has as a freighter, to load outsized cargo and to really do unique missions as a freighter."

The 747 freighter is the only commercial production model jet that can load long cargo through its nose. Airbus doesn't offer a freighter in the same category.

Will Qatar be back for more beyond its small fleet of two jets?

"It is a possibility as a requirement, as we grow our cargo business," said Baker.

Boeing says it's in discussions with more airlines for more orders.

http://www.king5.com/tech/science/aeros ... /478614797

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby J » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:13 pm

Use Air Miles to buy parts of UAL's retiring 747s.
Get seats, rudder trim indicators, stand by altimeter, etc.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... story.html

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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby 3WE » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:45 pm

Use Air Miles to buy parts of UAL's retiring 747s.
Get seats, rudder trim indicators, stand by altimeter, etc.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... story.html
I'm geeky enough that I might put an altimeter in my car...however, I think I might need a good static/ambient air source :-(

Rudder trim indicator...ummm....somehow, I just can't see it.

Given that this is United- it seems that some smart-aleck joke is in order...I guess one obvious thing is that your miles are definitely not good for free tickets to anywhere, but you can get junk airplane parts.

I recall TWA offering L-1011 simulator rides as they phased out the planes that went with them, but I was not a road warrior at the time :(
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Re: Boeing 747: It just keeps going and going...

Postby Not_Karl » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:06 pm

Rudder trim indicator...ummm....somehow, I just can't see it.
Maybe you could buy a GPWS and convert it to a MedianPWS...
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"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
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