A340 troubles, the latest news...

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A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:44 pm

Heavens.
Two 777-200LRs and one -300ER have arrived in the past month, he said, adding that he is unhappy with the performance of QR's four A340-600s. "If I could, I would throw them away. These planes are not efficient at all."
http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=15907
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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Ancient Mariner » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:00 pm

Heavens.
QR also has been forced to invest more money in its A330 fleet owing to the delay in the 787 program.
http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=15907

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:03 pm

What delay? La la la, I can't hear you....
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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Ancient Mariner » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:56 pm

What delay? La la la, I can't hear you....

DELAY
DELAY
DELAY
Per

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:51 pm


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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Cam » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:38 pm

One of those news reports that is pasted to some Boeing VPs wall with smiley faces all over it.
You should all know by now....so please stop asking.

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Ancient Mariner » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:49 am

I thought the wing was supposed to bend a bit more before it shattered? When, if ever, very unlikely I agree, I'm flying a 787 I'll be suspiciously watching the wings for movement.
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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Schorsch » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:35 am

That is "latest news"?
The A340-600 is not the best Airbus ever, final derivative aircraft always have some compromise built-in (see B767-400, B757-300).
Publicly, we say one thing... Actually, we do another.

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby David Hilditch » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:25 am

That is "latest news"?
Indeed - Virgin Atlantic have long been known to be unhappy with their A340-600s, which have been behind performance expectations. They vowed never to be a launch customer for a type again as a result of the experience. That said, I think the A340-600 was the wrong type for Qatar, and they may be passing the buck a bit. They're using them on medium-haul routes only right now, it seems.

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby flyboy2548m » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:21 am

That said, I think the A340-600 was the wrong type for Qatar, and they may be passing the buck a bit. They're using them on medium-haul routes only right now, it seems.
And just think of all the money and aggravation they could have spared themselves if they'd only asked you what type they should operate.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Ancient Mariner » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:51 am

That said, I think the A340-600 was the wrong type for Qatar, and they may be passing the buck a bit. They're using them on medium-haul routes only right now, it seems.
And just think of all the money and aggravation they could have spared themselves if they'd only asked you what type they should operate.
That's what consultants are for, but they couldn't afford David's fees. Unfortunately they asked pilots instead and the rest is history.
Per

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby flyboy2548m » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:12 pm

That's what consultants are for, but they couldn't afford David's fees. Unfortunately they asked pilots instead and the rest is history.
Per
I highly doubt any pilots would have picked that disaster of an airplane, but thank you for playing.
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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Ancient Mariner » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:27 pm

That's what consultants are for, but they couldn't afford David's fees. Unfortunately they asked pilots instead and the rest is history.
Per
I highly doubt any pilots would have picked that disaster of an airplane, but thank you for playing.
That's scary, who's flying them then? Come to think of it I've never seen any pilots around on my trip on 340'ies of any size. :o
Per

PS What's so disastrous about them apart from the number of engines. I, as pax, quite like them.

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby David Hilditch » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:38 pm

I highly doubt any pilots would have picked that disaster of an airplane, but thank you for playing.
Thank goodness. As bad as things are in the industry, things would be a heck of a lot worse if pilots were in charge.

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Procede » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:03 pm

That said, I think the A340-600 was the wrong type for Qatar, and they may be passing the buck a bit. They're using them on medium-haul routes only right now, it seems.
Of course driving them onto a concrete divider before their delivery doesn't help either...

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby flyboy2548m » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:32 pm

Thank goodness. As bad as things are in the industry, things would be a heck of a lot worse if pilots were in charge.
Considering that one of the few even relatively successful airline CEOs of recent times was both a pilot and an A & P, I'd say you're full of crap, as usual.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:47 pm

What's so disastrous about them apart from the number of engines.
Dispatch reliability, range/payload shortfalls, added cost of maintaining four engines (for the long haul), difficulty maneuvering around some airports, prone to crashing into blast barriers, etc. etc. etc.
I thought the wing was supposed to bend a bit more before it shattered?
The wing box tested in the linked video was only built to about 2/3 span. Most of the 787's wing deflection occurs outboard of the engine. At Boeing's test facility, the ceiling wasn't high enough to accommodate ultimate deflection of a full span wing. The actuators seen in the video where the wing is lopped off simulate the loading that would be produced by the missing outboard part of the box. Yours truly built the finite element model of the test wing. If you load me up with Akkevit and whisper sweet nothings maybe I'll show you a picture some time.
...final derivative aircraft always have some compromise built-in (see B767-400, B757-300).
Please explain the compromises that were realized in those two types. Other than the fact that, uh, no one bought those airplanes. Limit your answer to 10,000 words or less. Thanks in advance.
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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Ancient Mariner » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:03 pm

What's so disastrous about them apart from the number of engines.
Dispatch reliability, range/payload shortfalls, added cost of maintaining four engines (for the long haul), difficulty maneuvering around some airports, prone to crashing into blast barriers, etc. etc. etc.
I thought the wing was supposed to bend a bit more before it shattered?
The wing box tested in the linked video was only built to about 2/3 span. Most of the 787's wing deflection occurs outboard of the engine. At Boeing's test facility, the ceiling wasn't high enough to accommodate ultimate deflection of a full span wing. The actuators seen in the video where the wing is lopped off simulate the loading that would be produced by the missing outboard part of the box. Yours truly built the finite element model of the test wing. If you load me up with Akkevit and whisper sweet nothings maybe I'll show you a picture some time.
...final derivative aircraft always have some compromise built-in (see B767-400, B757-300).
Please explain the compromises that were realized in those two types. Other than the fact that, uh, no one bought those airplanes. Limit your answer to 10,000 words or less. Thanks in advance.
Thank you, I'm not going blind then.................only sligthly numb..............from clutching the Akkevitt bottle.
Per

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:25 pm

Considering that one of the few even relatively successful airline CEOs of recent times was both a pilot and an A & P, I'd say you're full of crap, as usual.
Dick Ferris?

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby flyboy2548m » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:35 pm

Considering that one of the few even relatively successful airline CEOs of recent times was both a pilot and an A & P, I'd say you're full of crap, as usual.
Dick Ferris?
Try again.
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:37 pm

Ferris Bueller?
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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby flyboy2548m » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:39 pm

Ferris Bueller?
Anyone? Anyone?
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Ancient Mariner » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:58 pm

Ferris Bueller?
Anyone? Anyone?
Ken Pilot?
Per

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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:01 pm

Ken Pilot?
Image
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Re: A340 troubles, the latest news...

Postby David Hilditch » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:13 pm

Anyone? Anyone?
I suspect you mean Gordon Bethune.

Anyway, it's always dangerous to extrapolate from one example, as you of course well know. As my mother would have said, you're so sharp, you'll cut yourself one day. History and experience show that my statement generally holds. I might, for example, say that the US banking industry is in crap shape, and someone will, rightly, point out that there are one or two well managed and successful banks. Does that mean the banking industry is not in crap shape ?


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