787 troubles, the latest news..

[J]

They're probably not thinking about Comet 1. Aside from the well-known cracking problem around the square window frame, the earlier wing design also featured a stalling problem if rotated too steeply according to a book by a retired BOAC captain. There were several crashes including one commanded by a Canadian Pacific senior pilot.

[OldSowBreath]

I'm feeling the love.

Make sure they wear a condom.

[flyboy2548m]

They're probably not thinking about Comet 1. Aside from the well-known cracking problem around the square window frame, the earlier wing design also featured a stalling problem if rotated too steeply according to a book by a retired BOAC captain. There were several crashes including one commanded by a Canadian Pacific senior pilot.

You're referring, no doubt, to the Foote Phenomenon.

[IntheShade]

Another problem was the dual engines buried in the wing. A catastrophic engine failure put the other engine, wing spar and fuel tank in jeopardy. Aerodynamically it is a brilliant idea, but practically it is a failure.

[PurduePilot]

Sounds like the P100 panel fire was caused by a tool that was left in the rack by supplier "French Zodiac".

http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2010/11/frne ... -p100.html

[J]

You're referring, no doubt, to the Foote Phenomenon.

Exactly right. Harry Foote. Couldn't remember his name. His Comet stalled at rotation and crashed at the end of the runway in Rome. Subsequent investigation identified a tail strike with an indicated nose up angle of 11.5 degrees - too much for the wing.

[IntheShade]

Sounds like the P100 panel fire was caused by a tool that was left in the rack by supplier "French Zodiac".

http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2010/11/frne ... -p100.html

How are the French always involved?

[Rabbi O'Genius]

Sounds like the P100 panel fire was caused by a tool that was left in the rack by supplier "French Zodiac".

http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2010/11/frne ... -p100.html

First the Rainbow Warrior, now this....

[Sickbag]

They've found the Culprit!

[Verbal]

Boeing Initiates Changes to 787 Power Panel, Updates to Software

EVERETT, Wash., Nov. 24, 2010 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) is developing minor design changes to power distribution panels on the 787 and updates to the systems software that manages and protects power distribution on the airplane. These changes come as the result of what has been learned from the investigation of an onboard electrical fire on a test airplane, ZA002, earlier this month in Laredo, Texas.

"We have successfully simulated key aspects of the onboard event in our laboratory and are moving forward with developing design fixes," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program. "Boeing is developing a plan to enable a return to 787 flight test activities and will present it to the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) as soon as it is complete."

Engineers have determined that the fault began as either a short circuit or an electrical arc in the P100 power distribution panel, most likely caused by the presence of foreign debris. The design changes will improve the protection within the panel. Software changes also will be implemented to further improve fault protection.

The P100 panel is one of five major power distribution panels on the 787. It receives power from the left engine and distributes it to an array of systems.

The 787 team is now assessing the time required to complete the design changes and software updates that are being developed. A revised 787 program schedule is expected to be finalized in the next few weeks.

"Our team is focused on developing these changes and moving forward with the flight test program," said Fancher. "The team in Laredo is also well along in preparing to return ZA002 to Seattle."

[Gabriel]

Thank's Good that a French left its wrench where he shouldn't have.
If not, the design fault in the panel's protection and software would have not been found until an ANA staff left hes wrench and the 787's electricl system caoght fire in a real revenew flight full of passengers in the middle of the Pacific ocean with just the RAT to provide electric power while the fire, hopefully, is extinguished.

[Giles]

Boeing photos taken after the inflight fire aboard Dreamliner No. 2 Tuesday show substantial damage to one of two main power distribution panels inside the rear electrical equipment bay.

Link removed

This is the P100 main power distribution panel, which takes the electrical power generated by the left engine and distributes it around the airplane to power vital systems. The panel is about 3.5 feet tall, about a foot below the passenger floor just behind the airplane's wing. It holds a collection of separate electrical boxes, including control units, circuit breakers and relays.

Link removed

Two contactors inside the P100 panel. These are electrical control boxes that relay the power from the generators on the engine and distribute it as needed. They open circuits or close them as the airplane systems' power needs fluctuate. The top contactor -- Contactor CK2435505 -- "caught fire and melted," according to an engineering description of the damage. Below that, Contactor CK2421501 suffered "extensive fire and smoke damage to backside."

Link removed

A close-up of Contactor CK2435505, the upper one of the two most severely damaged, shows a hole through to the back and lots of melted material.

Link removed

A close-up of Contactor CK2421501 shows the top of it damaged apparently from the fire directly above.

Link removed

The back of electrical panel P100 shows a hole, about 12 to 15 inches long, in the back of the contactor, and alongside it a badly charred fuselage insulation blanket. Behind that blanket, which is there for fire protection, is the carbon fiber composite plastic fuselage skin.

Link removed

The space between the top of the electrical panel P100 and the passenger floor. The steel tray at bottom right is a drip tray covering the top of the panel to prevent spilled liquids coming down into the electrical equipment. The top of the panel is about 3 feet above the location of the fire, which centered on two contactor boxes at the bottom of the panel. Soot residue is noted in the wiring between the panel and the passenger floor.

[IntheShade]

A little off topic, but the other day I was a passenger and I had over 80 movies to choose, around 1000 songs, a seat that reclined and moved in every direction along with a massage motor, remote control, lights, headset, etc..

The point is at one time looking out the window was entertainment enough, and perhaps a magazine. The wiring harness and power draw have got to be excessive. Remember Swissair 111?

[GlennAB1]

If it were "excessive" there would be more fires.

Electricity is serious sh!t, watch "The Green Mile"
I frequently write non-routines for flammable materials accumulated on top of wire bundles. There have been several fires attributed to it.

[Giles]

Sounds like the P100 panel fire was caused by a tool that was left in the rack by supplier "French Zodiac".

http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2010/11/frne ... -p100.html

Boeing doesn't know what the foreign object was, because whatever it was burned up in the fire, spokeswoman Lori Gunter said.
"It was small, it wasn't as big as a tool," she said.

[Sickbag]

If it were "excessive" there would be more fires.

Electricity is serious sh!t, watch "The Green Mile"

Only because they didn't wet the sponge.

[PurduePilot]

A little off topic, but the other day I was a passenger and I had over 80 movies to choose, around 1000 songs, a seat that reclined and moved in every direction along with a massage motor, remote control, lights, headset, etc..

The point is at one time looking out the window was entertainment enough, and perhaps a magazine. The wiring harness and power draw have got to be excessive. Remember Swissair 111?

ZA002 has no IFE or massaging chairs. What are you getting at?

[GlennAB1]

Drinking again, making up sh!t.

[flyboy2548m]

ZA002 has no IFE or massaging chairs. What are you getting at?

Have you ever owned a car that didn't have fog lamps, but was wired for them? Don't be another 3BS, Bradley.

[GlennAB1]

ZA002 has no IFE or massaging chairs. What are you getting at?

Have you ever owned a car that didn't have fog lamps, but was wired for them?

Yes.

There wasn't an excessive power draw due to it. Should be no power draw in an open circuit.

[flyboy2548m]

ZA002 has no IFE or massaging chairs. What are you getting at?

Have you ever owned a car that didn't have fog lamps, but was wired for them?

Yes.

There wasn't an excessive power draw due to it. Should be no power draw in an open circuit.

You missed my point, Glenn, but thank you very much for playing.

[GlennAB1]

You very much need to make pertinent points.

[PurduePilot]

ZA002 has no IFE or massaging chairs. What are you getting at?

Have you ever owned a car that didn't have fog lamps, but was wired for them? Don't be another 3BS, Bradley.

Negative, Ike. I installed three sets of lights on my jeep (as well as a few other accessories) but did 100% of the wiring myself (i.e. starting at the battery terminal, installing an auxiliary fuse/relay box, installing and wiring new switches in the dash, etc.). I still would like to know what you and Charles are getting at.

There wasn't an excessive power draw due to it. Should be no power draw in an open circuit.

Concur.

You very much need to make pertinent points.

He would have less fun that way.

[IntheShade]

I know these are just snapshots but the damage appears to be much less severe than I imagined from the initial reports (with the understanding the system losses and fire in the overall scheme of things were severe enough).

[PurduePilot]

http://www.king5.com/news/business/KING ... 39234.html

SEATTLE - KING 5 news has learned that a small bit of loose metal, possibly a washer, caused the fire inside Boeing's second 787 test airplane 15 days ago over Texas. The fire occurred during the final minutes of a test flight.

The piece of metal was inside the P-100 electrical bay, located in the fuselage behind where the wing attaches on the left side of the aircraft. The metal came into contact with parts of the electrical system causing a short.

The fire set off a series of events which are now causing Boeing to pursue a relatively minor re-design of its 787 electrical system.

The company is expected to announce the findings of its investigation this afternoon.

The open question is just how much additional delay, if any, this will mean to Boeing's plan to deliver the first jet to Japan's All Nippon Airlines sometime in February of next year.

Boeing statement.

EVERETT, Wash., Nov. 24, 2010 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) is developing minor design changes to power distribution panels on the 787 and updates to the systems software that manages and protects power distribution on the airplane. These changes come as the result of what has been learned from the investigation of an onboard electrical fire on a test airplane, ZA002, earlier this month in Laredo, Texas.

"We have successfully simulated key aspects of the onboard event in our laboratory and are moving forward with developing design fixes," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program. "Boeing is developing a plan to enable a return to 787 flight test activities and will present it to the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) as soon as it is complete."

Engineers have determined that the fault began as either a short circuit or an electrical arc in the P100 power distribution panel, most likely caused by the presence of foreign debris. The design changes will improve the protection within the panel. Software changes also will be implemented to further improve fault protection.

The P100 panel is one of five major power distribution panels on the 787. It receives power from the left engine and distributes it to an array of systems.

The 787 team is now assessing the time required to complete the design changes and software updates that are being developed. A revised 787 program schedule is expected to be finalized in the next few weeks.

"Our team is focused on developing these changes and moving forward with the flight test program," said Fancher. "The team in Laredo is also well along in preparing to return ZA002 to Seattle."