Crosswind landings @ DUS

[Rabbi O'Genius]

A rather nice video of fairly strong crosswind landings at Dusseldorf a few days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcsvR-w

Most seem to favour the "straighten after the main gear touch down" method, though a few line it up just before.
comments?

[Not_Karl]

Nice!
I feared for the rabbits at 2:21

[3WE]

1. Thank you, always enjoy a good crosswind video.

2. Snot-nosed, ass-hat, outsider, parlour judgment from keyboard at 0 ft AGL and 0 kts: I'm always impressed at how often airliners are leaning slightly with/down the wind as opposed to leaning against/into the wind.

Yes, the 172 offers better leaning capability than airliners (a function of wing length vs. wing height off of the ground for logical, not-so-black-and-white engineer types)- and this is significant to airliner operations, but it seems like half the time, the airliner guy is leaning downwind a tad (and in a sustained fashion) instead of upwind a tad...

(PS, I'd think it would be more half the time wings level and half the time up wind or 25% downwind 75% level to slightly upwind- I know there's probably a rule of thumb (or some FCOM) thing to keep the wings level.*)

2. a. And even worse on take off, the vast majority of planes are getting blown "off the runway" and only compensate after liftoff. In my days when I would claim some competence in a 172 (and it was never great competence), I think we kept it on the centerline and lifted off with a near immediate slight bank INTO the wind and minimal sideways movement off the centerline. The majority of the airliners have the upwind wing lifting first

2. a. i. I fondly remember a brief argument with flyboy over this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9IhQxmt08U

I expressed that I had never before seen an airliner start a takeoff with controls cocked "fully into the wind".

His response- "That's a common crosswind takeoff technique"

My response- "Yes, I know it well, but I have never before seen it used on an airliner, and indeed big jets are affected proportionally less by crosswinds than small planes- so I though you guys generally really didn't need that much effort."

While I cannot connect the initial takeoff roll with the "moment of lift off" in ROJ's videos, it seems like there isn't too much "proactive crosswind management" taking place. [/dangerous speculative parlour talk]

*I also recall Flyboy comparing/contrasting his CompositeBus experience with his CRJ in very plain language (and not EVAN FCOM talk). To paraphrase: Use rudder and aileron inputs as needed, being careful not to bank too much.

[/Faux-insider oratory]

[3WE]

I also recently posted this there.

Similarly enjoyable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erttyI7WOKo

[flyboy2548m]

*I also recall Flyboy comparing/contrasting his CompositeBus experience with his CRJ in very plain language (and not EVAN FCOM talk). To paraphrase: Use rudder and aileron inputs as needed, being careful not to bank too much.

It's not really rocket surgery now, is it?

[3WE]

*I also recall Flyboy comparing/contrasting his CompositeBus experience with his CRJ in very plain language (and not EVAN FCOM talk). To paraphrase: Use rudder and aileron inputs as needed, being careful not to bank too much.

It's not really rocket surgery now, is it?

Rocket surgery?, No.

But a skill

...of moderately high importance to your employer and customers.

...that not all people have (all of the time either).

...that I do respect you for.

...that (due to engineering) autoland does not have (at crosswinds above 20 kts).

[3WE]

Curse you Flyboy, you have inspired a new question...

Is a go-around rocket surgery?

[flyboy2548m]

Curse you Flyboy, you have inspired a new question...

Is a go-around rocket surgery?

No.

[Gabriel]

2. Snot-nosed, ass-hat, outsider, parlour judgment from keyboard at 0 ft AGL and 0 kts: I'm always impressed at how often airliners are leaning slightly with/down the wind as opposed to leaning against/into the wind.

Well, I admit having seen only the 10 first landings. In 9 of them the the upwind wheel touched down first.

Also, it seems that airliners (or their pilots, or those who write the procedures) don't care so much about touching down in a crab. Lower the upwind wing makes sense ONLY if you are in a sideslip to align the airplane axis with the runway axis.

[3WE]

Also, it seems that airliners (or their pilots, or those who write the procedures) don't care so much about touching down in a crab. Lower the upwind wing makes sense ONLY if you are in a sideslip to align the airplane axis with the runway axis.

My point is that they are spending a significant amount of time leaning the OTHER way, INCREASING sideways movements and increasing the required crab. You count 9 of 10 at the moment of touchdown, but many lean the other way in the moments before and get extra downwind momentum.

[Gabriel]

My point is that they are spending a significant amount of time leaning the OTHER way, INCREASING sideways movements and increasing the required crab. You count 9 of 10 at the moment of touchdown, but many lean the other way in the moments before and get extra downwind momentum.

That might have a rational explanation too. As you know wind speed typically increases with altitude, so as the plane descends it finds slower winds that requires less crab, and that requires a turn away from the wind (or to fly less into the wind), and that requires leaning away from the wind. If that's the case, them probably this is not "planned" and "rationalized" during the maneuver, but just the natural result of the pilot (Otto or Joe) flying the plane and working to keep the extended center line or the loc centered.

[3WE]

Valid.

Now, throw me a bone and agree that there's one or two that seem to lean the wrong way at the wrong times