Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Discussion of aviation issues which are not safety related (airline operations, pilot contracts, aviation industry news, etc.)

Moderators: el, FrankM, Dmmoore

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4283
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Postby 3WE » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:37 pm

Stormy day, Turbulence above average...nothing super bad, but then again, a certain nastiness to it.
-3:30 PM flight scheduled from Flyover to Big Hub, arrival at BHM scheduled for 7:30 PM.
-4:10 PM Actual departure due to weather delay on inbound...no big deal- AND connection is good!
~4:40 slightly past the greater BNA area, we make three circuits.
-The NW Arrival to Big Hub is shut down.
-A Dummy Pilot (probably NOT the ISGDDPOM) announces we must land elsewhere for some fuel.
-Although we are dead over BNA, I guess MEM allows one to burn off altitude.
-Arrive at MEM, Dummy Pilot says, we can fuel up and be gone in 30 min (ATC tentative release is apparently in play)
-Fuel truck arrives, leaves.
-30 min becomes one hour.
-Dummy Pilot announces that they forgot the fuel slip in the paperwork.
-30 minutes pass.
-Dummy Pilot announces he HAS the fuel slip.
-30 minutes pass.
-Dummy Pilot announces that there is a ERROR on the fuel slip.
-30 minutes pass.
-Dummy pilot says he has the paperwork, doors close, engines fire, we taxi to a far corner and set the brake, AND kill the engines.
-Dummy Pilot announces at least a 30-min delay as Big Hub has enacted a ground stop for new take offs. (Flightaware does show some fun-looking chaos)
-30 minutes pass.
-Dummy Pilot announces that the ground stop is EXTENDED.
-Unhappy Pax ask off.
-Engines fire up, return to gate, deplane unhappy Pax. (Probably the Tee Vee, 3BS airplane imprisonment law from a few years back).
-Release time offered, doors closed, push back and a painfully slow taxi.
-Fly to Big Hub
-Wait 20 min for gate at 11:00 PM
-Run to gate of re-re-re-booked connection.
-15 minute delay announced
-15 minute delay announced
-15 minute delay announced
-15 minute delay announced
-Flight canceled.
-45 min elapse.
-Phone app shows rebooking for 11:30 PM on 11/23/2016 (Huhwuh?)
-Off to rental car place
-Rumors of all cars gone
-Huge line at one provider
-40 min in line (agents gossip that they will run out)
-3BS gets car
-2 hour drive to BHM in low flying slow 'aircraft' (rental car) (Runway 18 localizer approach- while sleep deprived- avoided---numerous other botched approaches to road ditch avoided too)
-Arrive destination 4:30 AM
-Phone does not readjust to central time.
-3BS awakened at 6:30
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
flyboy2548m
Posts: 3786
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
Location: Ormond Beach, FL

Re: Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Postby flyboy2548m » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:27 pm

Dagnabbit, if only there were regulations against such a thing...
Chief Pilot/ACJ Program Manager, Vandelay Industries, Inc

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4283
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Postby 3WE » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:51 pm

Dagnabbit, if only there were regulations against such a thing...
Indeed and Point taken.

If I may have a Tee Vee moment, I think Big-Hub International only dealt with on-field thunderstorms for an hour or so, and yet the system was very off kilter- even into the next day. The ATC system, gate availability, Aircraft service functions...all kind of snowballed on each other- even the Popeye's Chicken vendor was a mess.

"We" really do run things to the max on good weather and it's not like this was a big snowstorm...even the easing of traffic into nightfall didn't help...Big Hub was a most hopping place at 1:00 AM.

Did you get to enjoy any of this?
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Not_Karl
Posts: 2123
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Buenos Aires

Re: Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Postby Not_Karl » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:47 pm

Did you sued?
Junior Janitor, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Environmental Poisoning Assurance department.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4283
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Postby 3WE » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:10 pm

Did you sued?
No...but is is funny to "Monday Morning QB" this...

If I had only known the final outcome, pretty much at EVERY step of the way, I would have wound up much better off abandoning the big shiny jet....even among the final several 'decision points', I thought I was better off spending the night in a gate and catching a 5:00 AM departure...sure, let me wait and see what the automatic rebooking mega computer (that lacks Evan's backups) will do for me.

BUT, AT THE TIME IT WAS HAPPENING, and BASED ON THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME, sticking with the big shiny jet was the right choice.

Nevertheless, I am sure Querido El Presidente Amado Dom Triumfo will fix this.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Not_Karl
Posts: 2123
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Buenos Aires

Re: Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Postby Not_Karl » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:54 pm

BUT, AT THE TIME IT WAS HAPPENING, and BASED ON THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME, sticking with the big shiny jet was the right choice.
Did you fear that the situation would put enough stress and pressure on Dummy/Flyboy to make them forget fundamental airmanship and disregard procedures?
Good for you they didn't have to go around...
Junior Janitor, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Environmental Poisoning Assurance department.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4283
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Postby 3WE » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:10 pm

BUT, AT THE TIME IT WAS HAPPENING, and BASED ON THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME, sticking with the big shiny jet was the right choice.
Did you fear that the situation would put enough stress and pressure on Dummy/Flyboy to make them forget fundamental airmanship and disregard procedures?
Good for you they didn't have to go around...
From a few years of making overly bold statements on aviation fora about what we should do; I reached the conclusion that the vast majority of pilots keep safety and procedure at the top of their list and that the odds of catching the intentional deviation from the type specific QRH (or confusions between type-specific QRH's) or the inexplicable relentless pull up or botched go-around, is extremely unlikely.

Repeating from above- even though I'm sure there were plenty of assurances that the fuel was added (and some fuel gauges to confirm it), we did indeed wait for the coveted, correct piece of paper...procedure rules!

Of course, I was in gross violation of duty hours in accepting the job of piloting the Matrix from Big-Hub to BHM...that was scary.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
flyboy2548m
Posts: 3786
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
Location: Ormond Beach, FL

Re: Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Postby flyboy2548m » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:10 pm

Did you get to enjoy any of this?
Thankfully no. We had a long FLL overnight, followed by a night SJO turn, so missed out on all the fun.
Chief Pilot/ACJ Program Manager, Vandelay Industries, Inc

User avatar
Not_Karl
Posts: 2123
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Buenos Aires

Re: Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Postby Not_Karl » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:09 pm

even though I'm sure there were plenty of assurances that the fuel was added (and some fuel gauges to confirm it), we did indeed wait for the coveted, correct piece of paper...procedure rules!
Didn't you fear that the delays were because the planned route was as long as the plane's endurance?
Junior Janitor, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Environmental Poisoning Assurance department.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4283
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Postby 3WE » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:48 pm

even though I'm sure there were plenty of assurances that the fuel was added (and some fuel gauges to confirm it), we did indeed wait for the coveted, correct piece of paper...procedure rules!
Didn't you fear that the delays were because the planned route was as long as the plane's endurance?
I am limited to a genuine, factual reply. All of these trips were well within the range of the big, phallic, cable-controlled, rear-engined planes that successfully fought off 737's until Boeing bought the manufacturer...

...no good Evan jokes, except that had there been a go-around, the issue of underslung engines would not apply, and the control logic involved a big yoke and much more limited computer involvement than he likes.

One other point- flaps were set before any forward taxi operations away from gates...

Ironingly, over the 7 hour period, we never got formal drink service...Dummy sat the hosties down when we got into the turbulent area, Water and pretzels were offered when on the ground, but never got the coveted coke product or fruit juice...LOL
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Not_Karl
Posts: 2123
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Buenos Aires

Re: Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Postby Not_Karl » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:29 am

...no good Evan jokes, except that had there been a go-around, the issue of underslung engines would not apply, and the control logic involved a big yoke and much more limited computer involvement than he likes.
Didn't you fear a deep stall?
Junior Janitor, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Environmental Poisoning Assurance department.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 4283
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: Cascade/Domino effect, 1/22/2017

Postby 3WE » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:01 am

...no good Evan jokes, except that had there been a go-around, the issue of underslung engines would not apply, and the control logic involved a big yoke and much more limited computer involvement than he likes.
Didn't you fear a deep stall?
Ok...got me... the typical climb out angle on most takeoffs will tweak my foffie regions.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.


Return to “Aviation Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests