A380 troubles, the latest news...

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3WE
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby 3WE » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:27 pm

Frankly, I thought it was done when FedEx canceled their order. When an airplane that large can't be efficiently operated even as a freighter, one get serious doubts if there is an economic case for it at all.
"One estimate is that an A380 could carry 60 percent more volume than a 747 but only 28 percent more weight, thereby making it inefficient."
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:24 pm

The A380F was planned to have a cargo density of 8 lb/ft^3, compared to 10 lb/ft^3 for the 747-8F. That, and the lack of a nose cargo door, relegated the A380F exclusively to palletized package freight.

RIP A380
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:17 pm

RIP A380
Maybe Verbal has some explaining to do?
Note this article was written a few days ago before Airbus cancelled the A380 (and Emirates cancelled an order of 42 A350's and 10 777x's)
Has The Boeing 777X Killed The Airbus A380?

* * *
There are multiple reasons the A380 has failed, from problems in filling it to capacity to the sheer size of the aircraft and the way that limits where it can go. But we think we know the real reason it failed, and it’s all Boeing’s doing.

The new 777X promises to carry a similar number of passengers but in a much more efficient manner. It has better pressurization, ergo happier passengers, and can land almost anywhere that a 737 can. It’s caught the eye of Airbus’s biggest (only) A380 customer, Emirates, who ordered 120 off the bat, and a further 30 later on (and still want more).

So, did the 777X put the final nail in the coffin of the A380? Let’s take a look.

What does the 777X do better than the A380?

In some ways the A380 is the better aircraft, at least on paper. It’s a real crowd pleaser as far as passengers are concerned, and it’s operational stats don’t look bad either. When full to capacity and in its eye-watering 853 passenger configuration, no other aircraft can come close in terms of cost per seat, per journey.

But that doesn’t take into account other factors. Operating with a passenger load of 853 would increase weight, both from people and baggage, which reduces efficiency and range. It would also require more crew members to remain compliant with crew to passenger ratios, which would make the flight more expensive to operate.

Most carriers operate the A380 with two or three classes, seating around 550 – 600 passengers. Even then, it can be difficult to fill all the seats, which adds massively to the overheads of running a flight.

The A380 was designed to alleviate infrastructure problems. In 2007, when it entered commercial service, airports were congested and the A380 was seen as the solution to the problem. However, it inadvertently created a whole new set of problems for airports itself.

The biggest downside of the A380 is the enormous size of the aircraft. It’s sheer dimensions mean entire airports need to be reconfigured to accommodate the big bird. It’s kind of ironic that an aircraft designed to overcome infrastructure challenges has served to generate a whole bunch of infrastructure challenges of its own.

Preparing an airport for the A380 can cost millions. New piers need to be constructed, separate gates installed, and runways extended to allow the giant jumbo to land. An example is at Copenhagen Airport, where their A380 modifications cost the airport in the region of $50m.

As a result, the A380 is limited to service in just 60 cities worldwide. While Airbus argue that these 60 cities are strategic hubs, the lack of flexibility in routes has been a major turnoff for carriers.

The huge wingspan required to fly an aircraft that seats 400+ passengers perhaps contributed to the downfall of the A380. But it’s something which Boeing have overcome with a nifty little bit of design work.

* * *
In a last ditch effort to attract more orders, Airbus announced a revamped version of the A380 at the Paris Air Show 2017. Dubbed the A380 Plus, it includes new winglets for aerodynamic improvements, which Airbus said would drive down operating costs by around 13% per seat.

However, Boeing’s achievement of widening the choice of city pairs with the 777X totally trumps the Plus. It’s a case of wing tips beat winglets, hands down.

Then there’s the real rub. With low order numbers and high production costs, the A380 costs almost $450m for an airline to purchase. The 777X, in contrast, is being retailed at between $395-$425m, and airlines can probably get a good discount if they’re placing a large order. That’s a huge draw for carriers, and one of the reasons the 777X beats the A380 in our opinion.

The 777X is nipping at the tail of the rapidly departing A380 as we speak. Within weeks of the new model being announced, many A380 users had already placed their orders. Some of the first orders came in from Lufthansa, Emirates, Etihad, Qatar and Singapore, all of whom are already A380 customers. In fact, the only early order-placer of the 777X who doesn’t have A380s was Cathay Pacific.

* * *
Passengers want to get where they’re going, with no interruptions. Nobody wants to transit through a crowded mega hub; they want to ride a plane which takes them from point to point, which is not always possible on the super-sized jumbo. So, the A380 is out and the 787s, A350s and the forthcoming 777X are in.

Airbus took a gamble with the A380. Whether they took too long in bringing it to market or just underestimated the investment powers of airport developments doesn’t matter. The days of the A380 are numbered, and Simply Flying believe that the 777X had a hand in taking it down.
https://simpleflying.com/has-the-boein ... rbus-a380/

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:17 pm

As Verbal said:
The hits just keep on coming.
The following article says Qatar will retire their A380s when they reach 10 years of age (starting in 2024) and is "looking" at replacing them with the 787X. Not much of a resale market!

https://simpleflying.com/qatar-airways-a380-retirement/

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:32 pm

Maybe Verbal has some explaining to do?
The A380 and 777-9 aren't direct competitors, but the 777-9 is a great replacement for the A380 if that makes sense.

Airbus always pitched the A380's efficiencies predicated on flying at near-100% load factors between city pairs where operators could take advantage of its range capabilities. And they were correct. You can fly fully-loaded super jumbos back and forth between, say, London and Hong Kong all day and make money hand over fist. Nothing beats the A380's economics for those types of missions, by revenue seat kilometer or whatever metric you choose.

And then there's the real world. Typical load factors are in the 80 percents. There aren't all that many city pairs that can fill that many seats at that much distance. So A380s were getting used on a lot of shorter routes. So the economic advantages of a superjumbo, as touted by Airbus, diminish significantly in practice.

Then there's the seasonal fluctuations in passenger loads. In peak season you can easily fill your A380, but in off season you're flying it half full and it is bleeding you dry. Now replace your A380 with two smaller airplanes. When loads drop, you have the flexibility of taking one of those smaller airplanes off that route and moving it to another that needs more capacity. Or rotate them through maintenance checks. Whatever.

A380s aren't limited to flying to airports that modified their infrastructure for the big airplane, but it sure helps. You don't need bi-level jetways to load and unload passengers. However if you don't, it will take a very long time to do so.

As for the 777-9, the folding wingtips allow it to fit into normal gates. Having only two engines cuts your engine maintenance cost in half compared to an A380 or 747. It has the latest engine and (scaled-up 787) wing technology.

Most importantly? the 777-9 is a BOEING.
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:44 pm

...at replacing them with the 787X.
What are this 787X of which you speak?
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:15 am

...at replacing them with the 787X.
What are this 787X of which you speak?
Oops. Fat fingered. Meant 777X.

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:00 pm

Lufthansa Snubs The A380

Earlier this week, Lufthansa ordered 20 Boeing 787-9s and 20 additional Airbus A350-900s. But its deal with Airbus came with a caveat. In exchange, Airbus had to buy back six of Lufthansa’s 14 Airbus A380s.

* * *
Don’t expect to see 787-9s in Lufthansa livery. My bet is that the 787-9s will go to Austrian and SWISS while the A350s will go to Lufthansa, which already has an open order for 25 A350s (12 already have already been delivered).

The A380 phaseout will not begin until 2022, but enjoy them while they last. The new deliveries, including the initial 777-9s, will not have first class. The remaining eight A380s may remain in the Lufthansa fleet until the late 2020s.


https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com ... a380-snub/

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Tue May 07, 2019 2:07 pm

Article with photo of the two Singapore A380's being parted out.

https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a380s-scrap/

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Sickbag » Tue May 07, 2019 7:14 pm

Article with photo of the two Singapore A380's being parted out.

https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a380s-scrap/

I wonder how easily the wiring circuits come out?
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:04 pm

And Now Emirates

Emirates Airlines, World’s Largest A380 Operator, Begins Dumping, Cannibalizing Planes
Excerpt:
Although Emirates says it will fly the A380 through 2035, a pair of A380s have already been removed from Emirates service. Instead of being sold into a used market for the A380, which has never developed, they will be cannibalized to provide spare parts for the remaining fleet, Clark recently told FlightGlobal.

“We are in the process of [starting A380 retirements]. Two have been deactivated,” Clark said in the FlightGlobal interview. “They are under retirement because we’ve got a major overhaul coming up and it’s best to take the old aircraft out – they’re all written down – and take the gear off them rather than buy a $25 million main landing gear.” This may be both an economic and practical measure, as the A380 production line is set to close in 2021.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgol ... 6bff633ae2

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:55 pm

The First Retired A380 Has Now Been Scrapped

Article includes photo of stripped hull being moved into a hanger on a transporter as all useable parts including landing gear have been removed.


https://simpleflying.com/first-airbus-a380-scrapped/

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Gabriel » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:55 am

A careful platform was needed to bring the A380 into the hanger
What is a careful platform? A hanger????

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:52 pm

And now Air France begins retirement of its A380's in January. This first one is being sent to lessor Dr. Peters Group - the same company that parted out the Singapore A380.


https://simpleflying.com/air-france-sup ... etirement/

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:01 pm

Photographic Evidence of Dismantling.

https://twitter.com/cliper31/status/1212447402784968706

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:05 pm

Hi Fly Is Flying An A380 To Wuhan to Evacuate Citizens
After a brief discussion on the fact this former Singapore plane has not seen much service it gets to the upcoming trip:

The routing here is interesting, as the A380 is first flying to Paris today, where it will pick up a medical team.

Then tomorrow morning it will fly from Paris to Hanoi to Wuhan to Paris, getting back to Europe on Saturday morning. The plane will just have brief connections in Hanoi and Wuhan.

Presumably the Hanoi stop is so that they can have a crew change, since they can’t have one crew operate the roundtrip. Positioning crew to Wuhan would be challenging, given that the city is closed off.

https://onemileatatime.com/hi-fly-a380-wuhan/

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:34 pm

Final Wing Leave Wales Factory (with photographs of wing being transported down a country lane)

https://www.pesmedia.com/airbus-a380-fi ... on-100220/

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Not_Karl » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:49 pm

Final Wing Leave Wales Factory (with photographs of wing being transported down a country lane)

https://www.pesmedia.com/airbus-a380-fi ... on-100220/
:cry:
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:11 pm

So now you can buy a tag made from the skin of the retired plane. (A skin tag?). The first run sold out so order now. Or, you can get a piece of an A340 or a 777.

https://www.aviationtag.com/en/produkt/ ... 80-9v-ska/

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Not_Karl » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:52 pm

So now you can buy a tag made from the skin of the retired plane. (A skin tag?). The first run sold out so order now. Or, you can get a piece of an A340 or a 777.

https://www.aviationtag.com/en/produkt/ ... 80-9v-ska/
I wonder if it delaminates with use...
International Ban ALL Aeroplanies Association, founder and president.

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:40 pm

While it is understandable all sorts of aircraft are being temporarily parked, it doesn't look particularly good for A380.

Last Airbus A380 flight for Lufthansa?
Already prior to the Coronavirus crisis the airline announced it would limit the use of the wide-bodied aircraft.

An A380 Lufthansa aircraft with 459 passengers and 24 crew-members on board landed in Frankfurt on Sunday. The plane took off in Bangkok, where a large number of people were still waiting for a flight back to Europe. It's highly likely this was the last Lufthansa Airbus flight.

For cost reasons, the German airline announced they would limit the use of the large passenger aircraft before the crisis. As of 2022, Airbus will retract 6 out of the 14 A380 currently used by Lufthansa. The aircrafts in question are currently stationed at Munich and Frankfurt airports.
https://today.rtl.lu/news/world/a/1492367.html


Emirates Seeks to Slow Last Few Deliveries Airbus A380 Deliveries
Dubai’s Emirates, the world’s largest long-haul airline, still plans to take the eight remaining A380s and is discussing the timing of the handovers with Airbus, the people said, according to people familiar with the matter. The talks are ongoing and no decision has been taken on when Emirates will receive the planes, the people said, asking not to be named because the negotiations are private.

Emirates, by far the biggest customer for the A380, had already pared back its order last year, prompting Toulouse, France-based Airbus to wind down production of what was once its flagship product. Now it and other airlines including Deutsche Lufthansa AG and Qantas Airways Ltd. are parking the planes, which are hard to fill in configurations that can exceed 600 passengers
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... deliveries

ANA Temporarily Grounds Airbus A380 Fleet
Japanese carrier ANA has announced that it is temporarily suspending flights with its fleet of Airbus A380 aircraft. The two A380s currently only fly to Honolulu. However, Hawaiian Authorities will enact mandatory 14-day quarantines for arrivals from Thursday
https://simpleflying.com/ana-airbus-a380-grounded/

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:35 pm

Article from April 11:

Incredible: Just ONE A380 Flying in The Sky!

Coronavirus is now known to be aviation's biggest farewell party. It is hard to believe just one A380 is flying in the sky at the moment!

At the same time, I noticed how many Boeing 747s are flying in the sky, covering almost all continents.

All but 3 of the B747s flying in the sky are cargo flights. The essential airfreight fleet has hardly been impacted by the coronavirus.

It is not even a scheduled A380 flight, but a repatriation charter operated by Lufthansa on behalf of the German Government.

The 3 passenger B747 exceptions are:

◦Lufthansa B747-8 from Frankfurt to Sao Paulo
◦Lufthansa B747-400 from Christchurch to Bangkok (Repatriation Charter)
◦Wamos Air B747-400 from Madrid to Miami

For Boeing 747 lovers, there is a rare piece of good news; KLM has brought back their recently retired B747 to operate more cargo flights.

(shows several maps of the A380 flight and 747 flights)

https://samchui.com/2020/04/11/incredib ... pcaXD9YZFc

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Wed May 06, 2020 1:55 pm

A380 Freighter Might Be More Trouble Than It’s Worth For COVID-19 Air Cargo

Excerpt:

But that is changing. An undisclosed airline has contracted Lufthansa Technik to support modification of one A380 into the first superjumbo “auxiliary freighter.”

Airlines have not needed to press the A380 into regular cargo-only flights. Of the 15 airlines with A380s, 10 also have the 777-300ER that has 22% more cargo space and is cheaper to operate.

The calculation changes if the A380’s passenger cabin space can be unlocked for cargo carriage.

Such hybrid aircraft have seats removed to free up space for cargo in the passenger cabin. Other interior elements – galleys, lavatories and closets – are left intact for a post-COVID-19 recovery.

“Hopefully they will rebuild their passenger cabin as originally designed,” a Lufthansa Technik spokesperson says.


Airlines are usually only removing economy seats since premium seats have more parts, intricate assembly and additional connections for in-seat power, light control and in-flight entertainment.

A380s are often in premium-heavy configurations. Often the upper deck only has premium class seats and related furnishings like lounges and bars. That could limit the A380’s cargo capacity.

Once the A380 is adapted to carry cargo in the cabin, it will be evident how much space is gained and what is its cargo potential versus an aircraft that is overall smaller but has a larger purpose-built cargo compartment.

The A380’s cargo capacity can be increased if using its passenger cabin. Regulators permitted airlines to carry cargo on seats and then allowed them to remove seats to free up more space for cargo.

The process is not so simple. Passenger cabins are not designed to carry cargo. Airlines have had to devise restraint methods and assign an on-board observer to patrol the cabin during flight since passenger cabins, unlike freight aircraft, are not equipped with smoke detectors. (Only lavatories have smoke detectors.)

Cabin floors are built to carry passengers and seats, not heavy cargo.

For cargo use, load limitations are imposed, and some regulators only permit medical and personal protective equipment to be carried in the cabin. More typical types of cargo, including hazardous goods, have to be carried in the traditional cargo compartments.

Airbus offers a modification to replace seats with pallets that can then have cargo loaded on them. The loading still needs to be done internally as a fully-stacked pallet cannot fit through the passenger door. Airbus is offering the modification on the A330, A340 and A350 – but not A380.

The A380 brings more challenges. Its upper deck floor has a different weight restriction than on the lower deck.

Airlines have been loading boxes onto catering trucks and other vehicles that can hydraulically lift to reach the passenger cabin. But many vehicles cannot reach the taller upper deck on the A380. Special catering trucks for the A380 are not as common.

If external access is ruled out, the A380 has two internal staircases. But one is spiral and the other is straight but narrow.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorto ... 2bd8475df3

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby 3WE » Wed May 06, 2020 6:14 pm

J has made 3 posts on this thread with no response.

Given that, let me say:
3BS (inspired by flyboy): Noted.
And appreciated.
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Wed May 06, 2020 7:05 pm

We on the internet live for acknowledgement, I suppose. And thanks.


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