Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
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Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
Well, they work bad because they haul people into the sky and then burst into flames, but aside from that?
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
- Not_Karl
- Previously banned for not socially distancing
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Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
no
Wings have caused enough accidents already and should be banned ASAP.
(I suspect that this is something related to there?)
Wings have caused enough accidents already and should be banned ASAP.
(I suspect that this is something related to there?)
International Ban ALL Aeroplanies Association, founder and president.
"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.
"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
The question should be "Are we comfortable of our understanding on how wings work?" or simply "Do we know how wings work?"
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
Look, Gabieee,
Much like Evanie, I have read much of Bernoulli and Venturi and must confess, I’m not sure I get it.
Conversely, I like Wolfgangieee’s and your explanations and feel no need to argue, except to pester you and I don’t like the loss of lift NOR spins that are often associated with stalls.
Much like Evanie, I have read much of Bernoulli and Venturi and must confess, I’m not sure I get it.
Conversely, I like Wolfgangieee’s and your explanations and feel no need to argue, except to pester you and I don’t like the loss of lift NOR spins that are often associated with stalls.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
F.A.O.: Blubie
How does a wing produce lift?
As I listened to this, I thought it was so cool that I should double post it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld6fAO4idaI
FAO: Blubie- We miss you.
As I listened to this, I thought it was so cool that I should double post it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld6fAO4idaI
FAO: Blubie- We miss you.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
Here's a wind tunnel video.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/viral/st ... ocid=ientp
No big change to aerodynamic theory- just moderately interesting- and is a fun jab at the need for the super critical curved airfoil requirement vs. the barn door.
Seems like it might have been good to have an MCAS system here.
[Repost of Peter, Paul and Mary]
http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/viral/st ... ocid=ientp
No big change to aerodynamic theory- just moderately interesting- and is a fun jab at the need for the super critical curved airfoil requirement vs. the barn door.
Seems like it might have been good to have an MCAS system here.
[Repost of Peter, Paul and Mary]
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
For this instance, this may be more appropriate than Peter, Paul and MaryHere's a wind tunnel video.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/viral/st ... ocid=ientp
No big change to aerodynamic theory- just moderately interesting- and is a fun jab at the need for the super critical curved airfoil requirement vs. the barn door.
Seems like it might have been good to have an MCAS system here.
[Repost of Peter, Paul and Mary]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH2w6Oxx0kQ
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
Agricultural comment:
The statements below are not absolute...but largely true? with respect to wings:
The air on the underside of the wing has no choice BUT to be shoved down...a flat surface will suffice.
The air on top is “free” to not_follow the wing...but the curved surface does a better job prepping it and coercing it downward than a flat surface especially at higher AOAs.
Bernoulli who?
The statements below are not absolute...but largely true? with respect to wings:
The air on the underside of the wing has no choice BUT to be shoved down...a flat surface will suffice.
The air on top is “free” to not_follow the wing...but the curved surface does a better job prepping it and coercing it downward than a flat surface especially at higher AOAs.
Bernoulli who?
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
Would now be a good time to bring up the subject of an aircraft that is flying inverted?
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
Eric:Would now be a good time to bring up the subject of an aircraft that is flying inverted?
This is an advanced forum.
We know:
1. Barn doors can generate great lift.
2. Aerobatic aircraft may have more symmetrical wing profiles to support “negative/inverted” lift.
However, it was established there that there is much misinformation about the curved upper surface of a typical wing and it’s “extra” contribution to lift.
But a typical wing can produce plenty of “negative/inverted” lift if the “elevators allow” it...
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
- Rabbi O'Genius
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Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
As I smugly remarked in another thread....
Eric:
This is an advanced forum.
We know:
1. Barn doors can generate great lift.
2. Aerobatic aircraft may have more symmetrical wing profiles to support “negative/inverted” lift.
However, it was established there that there is much misinformation about the curved upper surface of a typical wing and it’s “extra” contribution to lift.
But a typical wing can produce plenty of “negative/inverted” lift if the “elevators allow” it...
Though I will concede that I should have said "most of the other features".A flattish surface moving through a fluid with an AOA is all you need to generate lift.
All the other features are just there in order to improve the lift to drag ratio.
......never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. – John Donne
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
Fixed.A flattish surface moving through a fluid with an AOA is all you need to generate lift.
All the other features are just there in order to improve the lift to drag ratio AND a higher max lift AND a more-benign trailing-edge-type stall characteristic AND provide volume for structure, mechanisms and fuel.
- Rabbi O'Genius
- Posts: 770
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:37 am
- Location: Hauts de Seine
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
Thanks Gabriel, I think we have a simple functional definition of the wing in 3 lines of textFixed.A flattish surface moving through a fluid with an AOA is all you need to generate lift.
All the other features are just there in order to improve the lift to drag ratio AND a higher max lift AND a more-benign trailing-edge-type stall characteristic AND provide volume for structure, mechanisms and fuel.
......never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. – John Donne
- Not_Karl
- Previously banned for not socially distancing
- Posts: 4181
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm
- Location: Bona Nitogena y otra gaso, Argentina
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
While I didn't readed the discussion there where all this is coming from, I have some serious questions that need to be answered by someeone who is Not_part of the conspiracy:Would now be a good time to bring up the subject of an aircraft that is flying inverted?
If an inverted plane stalls, is there an increase in lift instead of a reduction? And then it falls upwards?
Thanks in advance.
International Ban ALL Aeroplanies Association, founder and president.
"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.
"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
Rabieee and Gabeee:
Remember- according to many books, wingies are more curveyey on top and flattery on bottom because Bernoulli sucks on the top, producing much more lift on top...
You guys are pretty dismissive of the books and actual wing shapes...there’s something to that hump and my hand out the window confirms it.
Remember- according to many books, wingies are more curveyey on top and flattery on bottom because Bernoulli sucks on the top, producing much more lift on top...
You guys are pretty dismissive of the books and actual wing shapes...there’s something to that hump and my hand out the window confirms it.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
Would now be a good time to mention things like hang-glider wings and windsurfer sails* that are curved on the bottom too? Because they're essentially a single surface...Remember- according to many books, wingies are more curveyey on top and flattery on bottom because Bernoulli sucks on the top, producing much more lift on top...
* Boat sails too, but a windsurfer sail is a better example IMHO because they're shaped much more like airplane wings.
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
I also pay attention to ATL crew who mentioned a highly technical physics acronym (which I am sure Evan knew): PFM. I think it means Pneumatic Flow Modification.Would now be a good time to mention things like hang-glider wings and windsurfer sails* that are curved on the bottom too? Because they're essentially a single surface...Remember- according to many books, wingies are more curveyey on top and flattery on bottom because Bernoulli sucks on the top, producing much more lift on top...
* Boat sails too, but a windsurfer sail is a better example IMHO because they're shaped much more like airplane wings.
That probably explains Rogallo wings and boat sails.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
And what about kites? They need to produce enough lift to balance not only their own weight but also the down pull force of the string, and many times they don't look at all like airplanes wings.
- Not_Karl
- Previously banned for not socially distancing
- Posts: 4181
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm
- Location: Bona Nitogena y otra gaso, Argentina
[i]We[/i] are TOTALLY Not_comfortable with how wings "work".
Shipies with sails have been involved in too many Total Water Disasters. Aeroplanies with whings have been involved in too many Total Air Disasters. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Fixed.PFM. I think it means Premiata Forneria Marconi.
International Ban ALL Aeroplanies Association, founder and president.
"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.
"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.
Re: [i]We[/i] are TOTALLY Not_comfortable with how wings "work".
Nope, they have a common cause: humans.Shipies with sails have been involved in too many Total Water Disasters. Aeroplanies with whings have been involved in too many Total Air Disasters. Coincidence?
Re: [i]We[/i] are TOTALLY Not_comfortable with how wings "work".
Are you Evan?Nope, they have a common cause: humans.Shipies with sails have been involved in too many Total Water Disasters. Aeroplanies with whings have been involved in too many Total Air Disasters. Coincidence?
Ban all humans.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.
Re: [i]We[/i] are TOTALLY Not_comfortable with how wings "work".
No. I did not say "humans who don't follow the cold word of every procedure". That could be, but it could be very well humans who lack basic general understanding of what they are doing, or freaked out. It could be pilots that didn't seem to take notice of an accident that recently happened in the same type they are flying and didn't took the time to study what went wrong and how to avoid it in every detail. It can be humans running an airline that doesn't spend 2 hour with every single pilot in small groups of 4 or 5 to discuss what happened to the accident of the other airline, what is the vulnerability of the system, and how to address it. I am talking about humans that believed that a ship made of a material 7 times denser that water is unsinkable and acting as if it was (although that one did not have sails)Are you Evan?
That would be very effective to avoid plane crashes, as much as banning all planes. As it is usually said, the plane would have not crashed if it had not taken off.Ban all humans.
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
Because they're tied down they don't really have to generate lift at all; just drag and an angle of attack less than 90 degrees will produce some upwards force.And what about kites? They need to produce enough lift to balance not only their own weight but also the down pull force of the string, and many times they don't look at all like airplanes wings.
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
That is of course... wrong. Unless you have the kite hanging from above. Let's see how the diagram of forces would look like in a kite held from the ground:Because they're tied down they don't really have to generate lift at all; just drag and an angle of attack less than 90 degrees will produce some upwards force.And what about kites? They need to produce enough lift to balance not only their own weight but also the down pull force of the string, and many times they don't look at all like airplanes wings.
Say that you have the kite flying steady, so sum of forces must be equal to zero. The wind is coming horizontally. So you have the tension on the cable that points forward and down. The weight points straight down. The drag points straight back. Do you see any issue to make sum of forces equal to zero?
(Drag, by definition, is the component of the aerodynamic force that is parallel to the free stream. Lift, by definition, is the component of the aerodynamic force that is perpendicular to the free stream)
Re: Are [i]we[/i] comfortable with how wings work?
Ok, sure. And it works at high angles of attack when the airfoil is stalled why?
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