USAF C-17 wheels-up in Afghanistan

[David Hilditch]

What seems like an unfortunate wheels-up landing involving a USAF C-17 at Bagram February 5 :

http://www.iasa-intl.com/folders/belfas ... Bagram.htm

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/ ... m_020409w/

[flyboy2548m]

I take it, these things must not have a gear horn or a gear warning on the EGPWS. I see at least three reasons why that horn/warning should have been blaring its little lungs out in this case.

[Dmmoore]

Hum.
On a civilian transport aircraft you get a red gear position light when the throttles are retarded during cruise flight.
When the flaps begin to extend, the red light illuminates and the gear position warning horn sounds. The horn can be silenced by pressing a button.
If the gear hasn't been lowered when the flaps are extended into the landing range or the EGPWS is below 500 feet, the horn can not be silenced.
I can't think of an excuse for landing with the gear handle up.

[flyboy2548m]

Hum.
On a civilian transport aircraft you get a red gear position light when the throttles are retarded during cruise flight.

Um, no, Don, you don't. What you describe there is true of GA aircraft. On a transport aircraft things are rather more complex.

[Dmmoore]

Hum.
On a civilian transport aircraft you get a red gear position light when the throttles are retarded during cruise flight.

Um, no, Don, you don't. What you describe there is true of GA aircraft. On a transport aircraft things are rather more complex.

A warning horn sounds if the gear is up and the throttles are retarded on most light GA retractable aircraft. Specific examples, All Cessna, Piper & Beech retractable gear aircraft. The Beech Musketeer was a fixed gear aircraft built as a retractable trainer. It had a gear switch, gear position lights and warning horn which functioned if the gear handle was in the up position and the throttle retarded to about 15" Hg.

So, the 747, DC-10, MD-11, A300, A310, DC-8, 727 and 707 aren't transport aircraft? What I described is the way they work. I'm sure the RJ is much more complex.
In any event, there is no excuse for landing an aircraft, gear up.

[Cam]

The RJ is complex enough for FB....

[flyboy2548m]

So, the 747, DC-10, MD-11, A300, A310, DC-8, 727 and 707 aren't transport aircraft? What I described is the way they work. I'm sure the RJ is much more complex.

You stated: on civilian transport aircraft a red gear light comes on when throttles are retarded to idle in cruise flight. I'm sorry, Don, but that's horseshit. It takes a lot more than to just shap the thrust levers shut to set off a gear warning. Think about it for a second, O Mighty Wrench, why would the DCU set off a gear warning, when it knows the aircraft is nowhere near the ground?

[Dmmoore]

So, the 747, DC-10, MD-11, A300, A310, DC-8, 727 and 707 aren't transport aircraft? What I described is the way they work. I'm sure the RJ is much more complex.

You stated: on civilian transport aircraft a red gear light comes on when throttles are retarded to idle in cruise flight. I'm sorry, Don, but that's horseshit. It takes a lot more than to just shap the thrust levers shut to set off a gear warning. Think about it for a second, O Mighty Wrench, why would the DCU set off a gear warning, when it knows the aircraft is nowhere near the ground?

On the aircraft I listed, the ground sensing system "IS NOT" part of the gear warning system. Throttles at idle, the red gear unsafe light illuminates.
Maybe if you have the opportunity to fly a real transport category aircraft you see for yourself.

[flyboy2548m]

On the aircraft I listed, the ground sensing system "IS NOT" part of the gear warning system. Throttles at idle, the red gear unsafe light illuminates.
Maybe if you have the opportunity to fly a real transport category aircraft you see for yourself.

You know, Don, I'd tell you to go pick up a wrench and make yourself useful, but you're probably not much good for that anymore either. But, now that you mention it, as of this moment, I have 2, 183 hours of transport jet time. How much do you have? I thought so. The era of the DC-8 and the 707 is over. On modern aircraft systems need not be part of each other to talk to the DCU(s) that generate all of the warnings and cautions. Close the thrust levers at FL350 (or even at 10,000 like I did not an hour ago) and no red light comes on, no warning sounds. That's because the airplane knows a lot better than you can imagine where it is and what it's doing.

Now, let's pick your crap apart piece by piece.

Refer to A300/A310 systems manual found here:

http://www.smartcockpit.com/pdf/plane/a ... tems/0016/


Page 9 specifically states:

Red arrow illuminates red when landing gear not down and locked with the aircraft in approach or landing configuration. No mention of thrust levers at all, much less cruise flight.

On to the B757/767

http://www.smartcockpit.com/pdf/plane/b ... tems/0009/

Again, page 9. This shows the MLG indicator panel. Care to show me where the red light is?

On to the 777

http://www.smartcockpit.com/pdf/plane/b ... tems/0010/

Page 14 and subsequent. Gee, no red light.

Finally, the B737 NG

http://www.smartcockpit.com/pdf/plane/b ... tems/0021/

Page 10. At first it seems like you're in luck, this one actually has red gear lights. But aw shucks the only activate with both thrust levers at idle and the RA of 800' or less. Even you'd have to agree 800' AGL is hardly cruise flight.

You want me to go on or will you just admit to talking out your ass again?

[Verbal]

Flyboy, have you ever been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder?

[flyboy2548m]

Flyboy, have you ever been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder?

Can't say that I have, and if emedicine's definition is accurate, I doubt I qualify. BPD implies occasional, short-lived bouts of lousy mood and anger, where I'm this way at all times, especially with those who deserve it. My dad seems to qualify though.

[Verbal]

Can't say that I have, and if emedicine's definition is accurate, I doubt I qualify. BPD implies occasional, short-lived bouts of lousy mood and anger, where I'm this way at all times, especially with those who deserve it. My dad seems to qualify though.

I see. So you're just a basic garden variety sociopath. Let me know if there are any changes in your condition.

Tough break about your dad.

Regards, Dr. Sigmund von Verbal

[flyboy2548m]

I see. So you're just a basic garden variety sociopath. Let me know if there are any changes in your condition.

Oh, I don't know, sociopath is such a strong word. I just don't care for washed-up ex-wrenches who think they know what they're talking about.

[Robert Hilton]

Ladies, shall we say tomorrow at dawn?
Handbags at five paces.
Who would you like to nominate as your seconds?

[Cam]

She stopped in before heading down to the US for more work. Pic #2 you notice no gear bay doors.





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