Military Aviation WTF of the Day

[supersean]

AIM-9X for A-G roles.... I think the flares are almost as effective against hard targets!

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ssion.html

Now the submarine launched Sidewinder is something I can appreciate!

[Princess Leia]

It's like the 1960s all over again, when they had an AIM-9 with a radar seeker head, used in Vietnam.

[Marc 1]

It's like the 1960s all over again, when they had an AIM-9 with a radar seeker head, used in Vietnam.

And wasn't that an outstanding success? Not.

Actually, its a damn good idea. Something small with a small likelihood of collateral damage is a good thing in Afg. You take out the target without taking out innocent (or not) bystanders, leveling their buildings or killing their livestock. Hearts and minds. Also good for being able to take out Achmed the terrorist in a danger close scenario to our troops in combat.

[Robert Hilton]

The Sidewinder has also been a G to A weapon for a number of years (decades) so the reverse isn't too much of a stretch.

[supersean]

It's like the 1960s all over again, when they had an AIM-9 with a radar seeker head, used in Vietnam.

And wasn't that an outstanding success? Not.

Actually, its a damn good idea. Something small with a small likelihood of collateral damage is a good thing in Afg. You take out the target without taking out innocent (or not) bystanders, leveling their buildings or killing their livestock. Hearts and minds. Also good for being able to take out Achmed the terrorist in a danger close scenario to our troops in combat.

Marc- spending 100k for a precision hand grenade is not an effective use of resources. The scenario you described should be managed by ground forces or a A-G cannon.

[Princess Leia]

A cannon is already on any aircraft, and though ammo can be cheap, the lawyers for collateral damage claims are not. Plus there are many rounds that already require rebuild after being carried around on missions over Iran/Afghanistan.

IIRC F-102s in Vietnam also used the AIM-4 Falcon AAM to shoot at VC campfires along the Ho Chi Minh trail.

This would be a good way to restart full production of the AIM-9 line. The -X uses the warhead and motor from rebuilt -M models.

Actually, an IR seeker head for old AIM-7 Sparrows could be cost effective and get rid of old stock.

[Marc 1]

It's like the 1960s all over again, when they had an AIM-9 with a radar seeker head, used in Vietnam.

And wasn't that an outstanding success? Not.

Actually, its a damn good idea. Something small with a small likelihood of collateral damage is a good thing in Afg. You take out the target without taking out innocent (or not) bystanders, leveling their buildings or killing their livestock. Hearts and minds. Also good for being able to take out Achmed the terrorist in a danger close scenario to our troops in combat.

Marc- spending 100k for a precision hand grenade is not an effective use of resources. The scenario you described should be managed by ground forces or a A-G cannon.

Who said cost effectiveness was a criteria in the current or indeed any war? You may have noticed there is a critical shortage of troops on the ground and it is becoming increasingly unpopular losing troops in combat. Why risk a platoon with al the attendant risks of losing people, or the assets they use to be dropped in to do an operation (Chinooks etc) when you can lob in a simple cheap missile to do the same job? Losing the hearts and minds war will be far more expensive that a few guided weapons. Besides, cannon fire has only a small effective range (2000m at most?) If you had to get an airborne asset that close, the ememy would scatter and your target would dissapear. Firing from much greater ranges means the enemy doesn't know you are there till he is looking for all the hot and cold running virgins he's been promised.

The Israeli's have something similar in terms of a small low collatereal damage weapon that has precision guidance:

Rafael Spike

The only real difference I can see it that obviously the Sidewinder is cleared for carriage on fast jets whereas the Spike is not.

[Princess Leia]

The israelis also just test fired their GATR guided 2.75" rocket this last week, following Lockheed's DAGR and BAE's projects. Obviously someone sees value in small warhead precision weapons.

Look at the precision you canget with just a gun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZBFVge5mcM

[supersean]

Great counter arguments Marc & Princess.... I now see the light.

[Princess Leia]

Great counter arguments Marc & Princess.... I now see the light.

I hope this wasn't just sarcasm from a gut "Durr I don't get the concept so it must be dumb" response.

Some sobering numbers... Combat hour cost for an F-15E is $44,000. Would it be cheaper than just letting an F-16 or F-18 on station (which already carry Aim-9X too) plink a talibani hilux or scrambling a 2-ship Strike Eagle team to do the job...

[PurduePilot]

Great counter arguments Marc & Princess.... I now see the light.

I hope this wasn't just sarcasm from a gut "Durr I don't get the concept so it must be dumb" response.

Some sobering numbers... Combat hour cost for an F-15E is $44,000. Would it be cheaper than just letting an F-16 or F-18 on station (which already carry Aim-9X too) plink a talibani hilux or scrambling a 2-ship Strike Eagle team to do the job...

Do you have the operating costs of the F-16 and F-18 for comparison? I'm not sure about the F-16's endurance, but the F-18's loiter time sucks and to keep them on station (unless you have a tanker) you need to basically have two or three sets (one going back to get gassed up while the other loiters, then switching)

[Sickbag]

Why not stop waging illegal wars of aggression and occupation?
problem solved!

[PurduePilot]

Why not stop waging illegal wars of aggression and occupation?
problem solved!

Agreed. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen any time soon.

[Verbal]

Why not stop waging illegal wars of aggression and occupation?

Then we would not be able to create multi-million dollar death machines to bomb poverty-struck peasants that my country so fears. Where's the fun in that?

Next up: Lancashire.

[supersean]

Great counter arguments Marc & Princess.... I now see the light.

I hope this wasn't just sarcasm from a gut "Durr I don't get the concept so it must be dumb" response.

Come on now Dino Man.... I though we knew each other better than this. I was serious in my response... I did not see the points brought up by you & Marc. I am working on getting the AIM-9X A/G modeled in Fleet Command as we speak. I'll let you know how it works out in some of my A/G campaign scenarios.


Oh and I am loving the Sub launched Aim-9... just imagine the surprise of an enemy helicopter/coastal recon pilot as the SSAM (SubSurface to Air Missile) breaks towards them from the unknown!

[Princess Leia]

Why rely on an air launch? Think outside the box and dust off an old Chapparal launcher. Surface to Surface, and probably cheaper than an Excalibur guided artillery round, though shorter ranged.

[Verbal]

Why rely on an air launch? Think outside the box and dust off an old Chapparal launcher. Surface to Surface, and probably cheaper than an Excalibur guided artillery round, though shorter ranged.

If it will take down poverty-struck peasants, then I'm all for it.

[Princess Leia]

Why rely on an air launch? Think outside the box and dust off an old Chapparal launcher. Surface to Surface, and probably cheaper than an Excalibur guided artillery round, though shorter ranged.

If it will take down poverty-struck peasants, then I'm all for it.

But then who will Che Sickbag rally for if we don't.

I kinda like the idea of an Avenger Humvee with two 19 round guided FFAR pods. Lots of brown people would fear that.