Asiana 777 at SFO

[3WE]

Definite ironing...

I guess you need the gee whiz truck- I mean aren't there "big" drainage ditches around the airport and don't planes sometimes crash just outside the fence...then it would suck not to have it?

...and the log-jumper leaves no spare change for a lowly ambulance??? Yeah...you'd figure they'd have the basic ambulance...

[Verbal]

Wreckage porn.

http://washingtonflyersclub.org/images/ ... Asiana.pdf

[Sickbag]

How soon before its back in the air?

[3WE]

Wreckage porn.

http://washingtonflyersclub.org/images/ ... Asiana.pdf

Unfortunately photo 33 is not composed very well and has issues with the lighting.

Consequently, this cannot be entered into our photo database.

Thank you for your submission.

[OldSowBreath]

Would it have been inappropriate to say "Nice landing" to the captain upon exiting the aircraft?

[Verbal]

Would it have been inappropriate to say "Nice f***ing landing" to the captain upon exiting the aircraft?

Fixed.

[J]

NTSB: Asiana captain worried about visual landing
Excerpt:

Lee Kang Kuk, a 46-year-old pilot who was landing the big jet for his first time at San Francisco, "stated it was very difficult to perform a visual approach with a heavy airplane." The jet crash landed after approaching low and slow in an accident that left three dead and more than 150 injured.

The trainee captain told investigators that he realized others had been landing at San Francisco without the glide slope indicator, a technology that helps pilots land at the airport. That system was out of service while the runway was expanded, and has since been restarted.

* * *

When asked if he was concerned about his ability to perform the visual approach, Lee said "very concerned, yea."

A former Boeing 777 foreign captain at Asiana told investigators he found it "extremely difficult" to get pilots to fly visual approaches, and that they usually wanted to take off rather than land. In clear weather, it's not unusual for pilots to make a visual approach, using the view through their windshield.

San Francisco Fire Department Assistant Deputy Chief Dale Carnes is also scheduled to talk at the hearing about how a fire truck racing toward the burning plane ran over a survivor on the tarmac.

Footage taken after the crash showed a fire truck running over 16-year-old Ye Meng Yuan while she was lying on the tarmac covered with fire-retardant foam. The San Mateo County coroner later ruled that she was killed by the truck.

Attorneys representing some of the more than 60 crash victims suing the airline and Boeing Co. plan to attend the hearing. Asiana Airlines is also offering $10,000 to each of the surviving passengers, a payout the airline says is not a settlement and does not prevent passengers from suing the airline.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/NTSB ... 053762.php

[Ancient Mariner]

Captain Kuk? You couldn't make it up. Kuk means dick in Norwegian. I wonder if he is small or big.
Per

[Gabriel]

A former Boeing 777 foreign captain at Asiana told investigators he found it "extremely difficult" to get pilots to fly visual approaches, and that they usually wanted to take off rather than land.

Priceless!!!!

[Gabriel]

When asked if he was concerned about his ability to perform the visual approach, Lee said "very concerned, yea."

That's all I need to say, this job is not for you brother.

How can a pilot concerned about visual approaches can make it to a 777 captain is beyond me.

And let's face it, it's not like the visual approach in the 777 is like in a Piper Cub at Sweet Monkey River dirt airstrip.

PAPI/VASI for the glide slope, LOC for the centerline, GPS+INS+FMS, radioaltimeter, flight director, EGPWS and autothrottle (if correcly used) are all available to make the job much easier.

[flyboy2548m]

When asked if he was concerned about his ability to perform the visual approach, Lee said "very concerned, yea."

That's all I need to say, this job is not for you brother.

How can a pilot concerned about visual approaches can make it to a 777 captain is beyond me.

And let's face it, it's not like the visual approach in the 777 is like in a Piper Cub at Sweet Monkey River dirt airstrip.

PAPI/VASI for the glide slope, LOC for the centerline, GPS+INS+FMS, radioaltimeter, flight director, EGPWS and autothrottle (if correcly used) are all available to make the job much easier.

They make great kimchee, though...

[reubee]

I wonder how good their eyesight is?, and whether it was tested post the incident?

http://dms.ntsb.gov/public%2F55000-5549 ... 544904.pdf

10:49:21.1
CAM-1

{I understand that people, who have many outdoor activities,
are recommended to wear them to protect eyes. But I can't
wear sunglasses. I usually use them while in cruise flight, but
always take them off when on approach.}


10:49:40.8
CAM-2

{I even take them off to focus when on approach.}


10:49:44.3
CAM-1

{approaching with wearing sunglasses when I flew seven six
seven, I felt a bit uneasy from flare, I don't wear them since
then.}

[3WE]

When asked if he was concerned about his ability to perform the visual approach, Lee said "very concerned, yea."

That's all I need to say, this job is not for you brother.

How can a pilot concerned about visual approaches can make it to a 777 captain is beyond me.

And let's face it, it's not like the visual approach in the 777 is like in a Piper Cub at Sweet Monkey River dirt airstrip.

PAPI/VASI for the glide slope, LOC for the centerline, GPS+INS+FMS, radioaltimeter, flight director, EGPWS and autothrottle (if correcly used) are all available to make the job much easier.

They make great kimchee, though...

Given that Germans make great sauerkraut should we fear Lufthansa?

[J]

Given that Germans make great sauerkraut should we fear Lufthansa?

No.
Was at the airport a while back to pick up the wife from a Trans-Atlantic flight on LH. Wife doesn't like flying so I got there early and turned on my aviation receiver to help pass the time as I parked near a runway. ATIS advised the airport was currently closed due to winds and I could see a line of clouds approaching. Watching a flag on a nearby pole it finally shifted and flights resumed operations. he first inbound plane to contact the tower was Lufthansa. After receiving clearance to land the crew briefed the tower on their plans should they need to go around. At the request of the tower they also gave a ride report on the approach. The subsequent landing was fine and normal. The next plane to call was Air France. After receiving clearance to land the tower asked about their ride passing through the cloud deck. There was no response. The tower called again and the crew reported, "Oh Fine."

So LH is focused on aviating, briefing the tower on go around plans, etc. AF is probably cracking open a soda and talking about their plans during the lay over.

[PurduePilot]

Given that Germans make great sauerkraut

No such thing.

[3WE]

Given that Germans make great sauerkraut

No such thing.

Kimchee = Sauerkraut + Hot Peppers

(At least that's my parlour speculation)

[ocelot]

So LH is focused on aviating, briefing the tower on go around plans, etc. AF is probably cracking open a soda and talking about their plans during the lay over.

Given the training issues that AF has been seen to be having, that does not make me feel warm and fuzzy.

(As for sauerkraut, that's not the issue. What matters is the wurst-case outcome.)

[Rabbi O'Genius]

It seems that the inability to react appropriately to unplanned events is not restricted to the flightdeck at Asiana............

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26344019

[Gabriel]

The plane's pilot later said he was worried he hadn't had enough training to properly land the plane without the assistance of the instrument landing system, which was out of service for repairs at the time.

Again, someone who is afraid of landing because the glide slope is out of service, when you have fully functioning plane, a perfect VFR day in daylight with no clouds, perfect visibility, and just a smooth breeze for a wind, a long straight-in approach with no obstacles whatsoever to a runway that is much longer and wider than needed and that has a localizer and a VASI (or was it a PAPI?), is not a pilot even if he has a piece of paper that says he is.

[OldSowBreath]

I don't think it is fair to fine them $500,000.00 as they will lose face.

[J]

Excerpt from Today's Federal Register

NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD PUBLIC MEETING

9:30 a.m., Tuesday, June 24, 2014.

NTSB Conference Center, 429 L'Enfant Plaza SW., Washington, DC 20594.

MATTERS TO BE CONSIDERED:
8518A Aviation Accident Report--Descent Below Visual Glidepath and Impact with Seawall, Asiana Airlines Flight 214, Boeing 777-200ER, HL7742, San Francisco, California, July 6, 2013.

The public may view the meeting via a live or archived Web cast by accessing a link under ``News & Events'' on the NTSB home page at http://www.ntsb.gov.

[J]

[Includes video of approach.]

A federal safety panel on Tuesday concluded that the pilots flying the Asiana Airlines jet that crashed in San Francisco on July 6 mismanaged their landing approach and inadvertently shut off an automatic speed control system that might have prevented the accident..

Meeting in Washington D.C., the National Transportation Safety Board also blamed the crash on the pilots' failure to monitor their airspeed and altitude and a decision to abort the landing that came too late.
* * *
Investigators have said the pilots came in too slow and too low to touch down safely.

In addition to the main causes, the NTSB concluded that a number of factors contributed to the crash, including the complexity of the Boeing's automated flight systems and fatigue that likely degraded the performance of the pilots.

The four-member panel also stated that the trainee captain at the controls that day lacked the training for landing an aircraft manually and the pilot-instructor monitoring in the cockpit provided inadequate supervision.
* * *
Much of the discussion focused on the design of a Boeing Co. throttle system that automatically adjusts airspeed.
Investigators found that the pilots inadvertently deactivated the device when they did not completely turn off the plane's automated flight systems during the approach to landing. As a result, the automatic throttle went into a hold mode and could not activate when airspeed dropped.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

[3WE]

Yeah, I'm a crappy writer...but all that flowery "well written" crap just doesn't do justice to the fact that:

They grossly neglected the airpseed indication and power configuration during a critical phase of flight when you really ought to be pretty closely monitoring those things, and that it's a super crazy ridiculous basic airmanship skill that you are supposed to have shortly before you solo in a single engine trainer.

[alanh]

The executive summary is online: http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/2014/as ... tract.html

The full official report should follow in a few weeks.

[monchavo]

Thank you alanh