A380 troubles, the latest news...

Discussion of aviation issues which are not safety related (airline operations, pilot contracts, aviation industry news, etc.)

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby flyboy2548m » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:59 pm

Implications Of A United Airlines A380 Superjumbo Order

There has been a rumor that has come from reliable sources at United Airlines that states the company is in intermediate stages in ordering the Airbus A380 - the world's largest passenger aircraft...
What reliable source, Auntie Millicent on a park bench?
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:24 pm

ANA BUYS 3 - first sale in 3 years.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/0 ... olXqK88KrV

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby reubee » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:44 am

There will be 4 Emirates A380 on the ground at AKL tomorrow. One of which is subbing in for a 777-200Lr on the inaugural DXB-AKL non stop. That will be a good flight to be down the back on, reduced load so good chance for a row of 3 or 4 to oneself, just like the old days.
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby reubee » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:38 am

Avert your eyes, or for your viewing please
EmiratesAucklandA380s.jpg
EmiratesAucklandA380s.jpg (221.3 KiB) Viewed 1132 times
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:46 pm

Airbus A380: The Final Countdown

Last week saw an astonishing moment of frankness from the A380’s biggest customer. Tim Clark, President of Emirates, told Bloomberg that not only had discussions on a new re-engined A380neo version of Airbus’s 525-seat jet “kind of lapsed,” but that his “main concern is that they stop producing the plane.”

This was the first intimation that sudden death is a possibility for the troubled super jumbo. And the numbers highlight this risk.

It has been years since there was any significant commercial demand for the A380, aside from Emirates steadily growing its position to 142 orders. In April, Airbus executives admitted that output in 2017 could be as low as 20 aircraft. This is far below the 30 aircraft needed for annual recurring breakeven (this excludes program nonrecurring costs; there is no way to even begin to recover the $25-30 billion or so invested in the development of this aircraft).

Plummeting output reflects a creaky order book. Emirates still has 65 outstanding orders, on top of the 77 jets it has already taken. In theory, there are another 67 A380 orders on backlog. But many of the remaining jets have little or no chance of being delivered. Qantas’s remaining eight planes have been deferred indefinitely. Ten “undisclosed customer” orders are basically dead. Virgin Atlantic’s ever-deferred order for six is basically dead too. Amedeo, a speculative and poorly conceived leasing venture, will not take any of its 20 orders.

All told, we can only identify 18 truly firm non-Emirates A380 orders on backlog. Clearly, Emirates will need to do the heavy lifting in terms of line program sustainment.

Emirates took its first A380 in 2008, with 72 delivered through the end of 2015. That’s an average of nine per year. But as demand elsewhere has vanished, Emirates has been forced to ramp up its intake. In 2015, Emirates took 14 of the 27 A380s delivered.

How long can this keep up? Emirates has just reported its first annual sales decline in a decade. Its load factor dropped 3.1 points to 76.5%. Its yield fell 10%. Ramping up capacity hardly seems like the right move now.

Meanwhile, Emirates has ordered 150 Boeing 777-9Xs, with deliveries starting in 2020. This jet has the same range as the A380, more belly cargo, just 25% fewer seats (the discounted ones, of course) and has two fewer engines. They’re more modern engines, too

Thus, the question becomes, how long is Airbus willing to lose money, particularly when there’s no doubt about the ultimate outcome? Assuming that next year’s rate of 20 isn’t too ruinous, and assuming that Emirates can keep taking 14 per year (despite declining traffic growth rates and falling load factors), that means Airbus can sustain about three more years of production (14 Emirates planes per year, plus six for other customers). But then again, since Airbus is losing money on all of these planes, Tim Clark is correct to worry that Airbus could simply end the program at any time.

Teal Group has always provided the most pessimistic A380 forecast. But it turns out we may have been much more optimistic than reality.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardabou ... 1c4f4761b6

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Gabriel » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:31 pm

In the meantime... the 747-8 has a backlog of fewer than 20 orders.

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby flyboy2548m » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:55 pm

In the meantime... the 747-8 has a backlog of fewer than 20 orders.
The difference is that Boeing never expected the -8 to sell in huge numbers.
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:24 pm

Here are a couple of articles showing both manufacturers are struggling to sell their 4-engine aircraft:

Airbus A380 Customer Qantas Doesn’t Want the Last Eight on Order
Excerpt:
Qantas Airways Ltd. said it doesn’t want the remaining eight A380s it still has on order because the dozen it operates now are sufficient to meet demand, further dimming future sales prospects for the largest passenger plane that’s struggled to find buyers.

“Our intention is that we’re not taking those aircraft,” Qantas Chief Executive Officer Alan Joyce said Friday at an airline conference in Brisbane, Australia.

Qantas was one of the original operators of the A380 and looked to become one of the biggest buyers of the double-decker built by Airbus Group SE. Joyce has pushed back delivery of the remaining planes for about two years now, joining customers including Virgin Atlantic Ltd. that haven’t outright canceled orders but are unlikely ever to have them fulfilled. That leaves Emirates of Dubai as the one committed buyer of the aircraft.
. . .
Airbus announced a drastic cut in production last month of the flagship superjumbo, saying it would build about 12 of the planes annually compared with close to 30 in recent years. The number of aircraft Joyce said he needs is in line with most other operators of the model, including Deutsche Lufthansa AG and British Airways. Emirates’ orders account for close to 50 percent of the model’s backlog.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... t-on-order


Boeing may kill the 747 as widebody aircraft fall from favor; Airbus A380 also at risk
Excerpt:
According to Boeing, the new international version of the 747, the 747-8I, is 30% quieter, 16% more fuel efficient, and offers 13% lower seat costs per mile. The problem, for Boeing, is that not enough customers are actually ordering the 747-8. The company has therefore warned that “If we are unable to obtain sufficient orders and/or market, production and other risks cannot be mitigated, we could record additional losses that may be material, and it is reasonably possible that we could decide to end production of the 747.”
. . .
While Boeing spent much less on their 747-8 extension than Airbus invested in the enormous A380, neither plane may be very profitable. That’s particularly true for Airbus, which is expected to eat the estimated $25 billion it cost to build the A380 in the first place.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/2327 ... so-at-risk

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:33 pm

Now Comes Hawaiian Airlines:

Excerpt:
In an interview with Bloomberg's Christopher Jasper, Hawaiian Airlines CEO Mark Dunkerley said his airline is seriously considering the Airbus A380 double-decker jet as a possible addition to the company's fleet.

According to Bloomberg, Hawaiian is considering adding the superjumbo for routes from Honolulu to cities such as Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and Tokyo. Hawaiian currently services these cities with its fleet of Airbus A330 and Boeing 767 wide-body jets.

However, Dunkerley added that his airline is still not fully convinced by the A380's business case.

American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, and United Airlines have all declined to take on the massive airliner.


http://www.businessinsider.com/airbus-a ... ian-2016-9

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:46 pm

It has to be pretty discouraging for Airbus.

Exclusive: Airbus may ditch A380's grand staircase as sales tumble

Airbus is considering doing away with one of the hallmarks of its A380 superjumbo, a "grand staircase" echoing the era of cruise ships, as it looks to revive sales of the world's largest airliner, industry sources said.

The idea of a slimmed down staircase, as well as adding fuel-saving wingtips, is aimed at lowering the huge double-decker's operating costs and boosting its fuel efficiency.

The provisionally dubbed A380-Plus makeover would add 40-50 seats to increase the standard interior's capacity to more than 600 seats which would help airlines reduce their costs per passenger.

To make room for those extra passengers, the A380 would do away with the double staircase at the front of the plane in favor of something more compact. The narrower spiral staircase at the back would also be modified.
* * *
To help on the A380, the addition of vertical wingtips, more typically seen on smaller narrow-body jets, would cut fuel consumption by reducing drag.

The sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the makeover would improve fuel efficiency by around two percent.
They said the changes may also be available as retrofits to existing A380s, but that this had not yet been decided.

The design changes would add about three tonnes to the A380's maximum take-off weight, leaving more room for payload or fuel.

Airbus recently shelved plans for a bolder upgrade of the A380 involving new engines due to cost, and announced plans to cut output to one a month due to poor sales.

Beyond the new tweaks, the health of the program depends on getting costs low enough so that Airbus can keep output ticking over at 12 a year without losing money, while it waits for what it hopes will be a rise in demand as air travel grows.

"The time will come for the A380," Airbus sales chief John Leahy told the ISTAT Americas air finance conference this week.
Airbus was due to unveil a dedicated online booking system for A380 flights at a Berlin show on Wednesday.

The European company's U.S. rival Boeing argues the time for very large four-engined jets, such as the A380 and its own slow-selling 747-8, is ending.

In the short term, Airbus faces another challenge: helping investors find homes for five A380s due to be released by Singapore Airlines after their lease expires.

So far there is no second-hand market for the jets, which entered service in 2007, and several ISTAT delegates said it would not be easy to find takers due in part to the high costs of converting the interiors to suit the needs of a new airline


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbu ... SKBN16F0YR
Correct:
United looking at second-hand aircraft, rules out A380

United Continental Holdings UAKL.N is interested in buying second-hand aircraft as they are released to the market when leases expire, Chief Finance Director Andrew Levy said on Tuesday.

Speaking at the ISTAT Americas air finance conference, he also ruled out United, which recently retired its Boeing 747 jumbo jets, buying any more aircraft in that category for the world's largest four-engined jets.

United, the largest U.S. carrier by traffic, has been tipped in the past as a potential buyer for the Airbus A380 superjumbo.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-unite ... SKBN16E2P2

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:46 pm

Recent news coverage suggests Emirates is toying with the idea of a 20-plane order and that Airbus will slow production if they dohn't see any new orders soon.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... uperjumbos

Then there is this.

A380 door deactivation could raise seat-count
Airbus is looking at deactivation of an upper deck exit door on the A380 as part of measures to increase the type's accommodation.

The airframer has previously outlined a number of modifications to raise the seat-count of the double-deck type.

But chief operating officer for customers John Leahy disclosed during a briefing in Toulouse that Airbus is studying deactivation of the aft doors on the upper deck.

The A380 upper deck has three pairs of exit doors while the lower deck has five.

Airbus estimates that the deactivation could enable it to install eight additional seats

This project development study would complement other modifications including installation of new forward and aft stairs, 11-abreast economy seating, elimination of upper-deck sidewalls, and a combined crew rest.

Evacuation tests during the aircraft's development, with its total of eight pairs of doors, allowed the A380 to be certified for 853 passengers.

With Photographs
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nt-438102/

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:39 pm

Breaker's Yard Beckons for Airbus A380 If New Homes Aren't Found
Excerpt:

Airbus SE’s A380 superjumbo faces the ignominy of being broken up for spare parts if second-hand operators for the oldest jets can’t be found in coming months.

The double-deckers could be “parted out” to recover engines and other spares worth at least $100 million per plane, according to German fund manager Dr. Peters, which owns four A380s due to be returned between October and June by Singapore Airlines Ltd. following the expiry of 10-year lease deals.

At the same time, talks are continuing with six potential operators of the jets, including an Asian low-cost airline that would fly them in a 700-seat single-class layout, Chief Executive Officer Anselm Gehling said in an interview. Prospective users also include carriers in the U.S., which has so far eschewed the model, and Europe, where British Airways owner IAG SA is continuing to evaluate deploying used A380s at airlines within the group, he said.

* * * *
For investors, parting out A380s -- which had an original list price of about $250 million when they were bought, before discounts -- should offer a decent return, Gehling said. After 10 years, they’d have typically had back 65 to 70 percent of their outlay, and would need $55 million to $60 million more now to break even, whereas an A380 could yield up to $120 million in components.

Singapore Airlines has orders for five more superjumbos which will maintain its fleet as its first planes come off lease. Germany’s WirtschaftsWoche news magazine reported earlier that Dr. Peters could opt to part out some of the returning aircraft.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... en-t-found

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:01 pm

Here is your latest A380 news.

First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator
Excerpt:

SINGAPORE/PARIS (Reuters) - The first Airbus (AIR.PA) A380 superjumbo to fly passengers almost a decade ago has been taken out of service by Singapore Airlines (SIAL.SI), highlighting a debate over the future of the world’s largest airliners.

Singapore Airlines has already said it plans to hand back its first A380 to a German leasing company rather than extend its 10-year lease.

The move focused attention on slack demand for the 544-seat double-decker and raised the prospect that some could be headed for the breakup yard, casting a pall over celebrations to mark the airliner’s 10 years of service in October.

Confirming a report in flightglobal.com, Singapore Airlines said it had parked the aircraft ahead of the transfer back to its owner. Its last commercial flight was to London in June.

“It is correct that the aircraft has been removed from service ahead of its return to the lessor in October,” a spokesperson for the airline said by email.

“We are not in a position to comment on what is planned for the aircraft after it is returned to the lessor.”

The owner of the aircraft, Dortmund-based Dr Peters Group, and Airbus both declined to comment on the move.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKCN1B421M

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby 3WE » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:14 pm

I always got a big kick out of all of the debates, but I thought there really was a place for a big a$$ airplane.

I sort of figured they'd build more than ITS thought they would, but probably less than the Frenchmen in the marketing and CEO departments thought they would.

I parlour ass-hat assumed this would be reasonably successful.

Instead, it seems to be a near total business disaster.
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Not_Karl » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:18 am

I sort of figured they'd build more than ITS thought they would, but probably less than the Frenchmen in the marketing and CEO departments thought they would.
It sold 15 times as much as the Concorde! It is a complete and resounding success! :clap:







:mrgreen:
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby 3WE » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:46 am

I sort of figured they'd build more than ITS thought they would, but probably less than the Frenchmen in the marketing and CEO departments thought they would.
It sold 15 times as much as the Concorde! It is a complete and resounding success
In that context, Indeed.

And it would seem they fixed the problem of slinging debris into the wing, and giving folks a good landing- even though the plane is still irreparably damaged.
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:57 pm

This is an interesting (but not positive) development for the A380. I flew Hi Fly late last year between HEL and JFK when Finnair wet-leased one of their A340's to handle HEL-JFK service while Finnair pulled their own A330 from service while crews received A350 training.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled ... Q09Q%3D%3D

The eastward trip was cancelled when the Hi Fly A340 had engine trouble and was grounded for several days. I'll not bore you with the challenges of getting to my destination but I later learned a Hi Fly crew had a free multi-day vacation in New York and weren't complaining.
Returning from HEL to JFK a week later I flew the Hi Fly A340 which had one Finnair senior Flight Attendant on board to ensure a level of service. It actually wasn't too bad. The interior of the aircraft looked like the early 2000's but by no means shabby. It will be interesting to see where these two aircraft will be used. Hi Fly seems to be stepping up their game - they recently their first order for new aircraft; two new A330-200's.
Story: http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... order.html

New Airbus A380 Operator is Hi Fly

Over the past couple of days, the news has spread that the Airbus A380 has found a new customer. In this article, I want to have a look at what I think the consequences for the Airbus A380 business case will be.

The Customer
The customer that will be taking delivery of the Airbus A380 is Hi Fly. Hi Fly is a Portuguese charter airline specializing in aircraft leases and ACMI services to tour operators, governments and companies. ACMI services are service agreements in which the lessor provides Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance and Insurance to the lessee.

The airline operates an Airbus fleet mostly consisting of A330 and A340 aircraft. With Hi Fly being a provider of ACMI services, one thing I suspect is that before the airline has acquired the Airbus A380 aircraft it already had very specific plans for deploying these aircraft and they also have been able to run a thorough economic analysis for the ACMI services of the A380.

Value of the Aircraft
For a charter airline such as Hi Fly acquiring aircraft at the right price is extremely important. That is also the main reason you don’t see Hi Fly ordering the newest generation jets and it often takes up either second-hand aircraft or aircraft that are not taken up by the initial customer. So, having the cheap airframe is important for the charter airline.

The first thing, and likely most important thing, to note is that these airlines are not new aircraft from the factory, but second-hand aircraft that are coming off their first lease term. It is highly likely that the two aircraft that Hi Fly will be taking delivery of are aircraft that were previously on a 10-year lease with Singapore Airlines. Lessor Doric acquired these aircraft for almost $200 million in 2007, when list prices for world’s biggest jet were around $300 million. Normally customers of these early-built aircraft get big discounts, since they take the risk of being a ‘commercial testbed’. To me, Doric seems to have overpaid for the aircraft. Singapore Airlines has no intention of keeping the early-built aircraft in its fleet, leaving Doric with expensive aircraft that does not compare in terms of performance to later-built A380s.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/410235 ... 0-customer

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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Not_Karl » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:47 pm

The eastward trip was cancelled when the Hi Fly A340 had engine trouble and was grounded for several days.
But they still had 50% more working engines than most planes! Not a valid reason for a cancellation :roll: .
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby 3WE » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:18 pm

The eastward trip was cancelled when the Hi Fly A340 had engine trouble and was grounded for several days.
But they still had 50% more working engines than most planes! Not a valid reason for a cancellation :roll: .
Probably something in the procedures...

Heck, you know, in a 747, you just keep on with your flight as planned after you shut down an engine... (or was that cowboy improvisation?)
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby 3WE » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:48 pm

Quote = J: Here is your latest A380 news.

First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator
News on the news...

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/first-e ... 23502.html
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Not_Karl » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:03 am

We should buy it and make it our AD Force 1. Dummyie, Shady and FlyBoyie can take turns in the driver's seat and manage the zip-tie bag :D. Shame BBie retired :(.
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Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:49 pm

Drama in the Desert: How Airbus’s A380 Deal in Dubai Evaporated
At the handover of the 100th A380 superjumbo to Gulf carrier Emirates earlier this month in Hamburg, Airbus SE rolled out the red carpet to airline executives and Dubai royalty, who in turn winked and nodded that another multi-billion-dollar order for the double-decker was on the cards.

Ten days on, dignitaries were filing into a conference room at the Dubai Air show to witness the unveiling of a lifeline order for the slow-selling jet -- when the unimaginable happened.

Excitement over a mammoth follow-on contract from the A380’s only significant backer turned first to bewilderment as word spread that no announcement would be forthcoming, and then to mortification for Airbus as Emirates proceeded instead to hand a $15 billion deal to arch-rival Boeing Co.

The eleventh hour switch amounted to much more than just a lost order for Airbus, sending ripples across the aviation industry as the superjumbo’s already uncertain future turned a shade darker. It also provided a rare insight into how decisions are made at the word’s biggest long-haul airline -- as well as the uneasy interdependence between a planemaker and its key clients.

Airbus and Emirates have developed an almost symbiotic relationship around the A380. The Gulf giant has given the superjumbo a public profile it would otherwise have struggled to attain, while the airline put the 550-seat jet at the heart of its bid to divert a significant proportion of global traffic via a former aviation backwater.

Airbus CEO Tom Enders summed it up at the handover event, saying: “Emirates has become synonymous with the A380, and the A380 with Emirates.”

So close are the ties that what is still regarded as Airbus’s flagship model couldn’t survive without the Gulf operator -- which in turn would have a gaping hole in its strategy without the superjumbo. No surprise, then, that Airbus officials were left shell-shocked by the turn of events in Dubai. The gloom eased only three days later after the announcement of an order for 430 narrow-body jets from a U.S. buyer, a record deal for the company.

The mood at the Hamburg ceremony on Nov. 3 had been rather more upbeat.
Emirates Chairman Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al Maktoum flashed a victory sign to photographers, with Enders and the carrier’s President Tim Clark sharing a joke nearby. Emirates Chief Operating Officer Adel Ahmed Al Redha stood next to Airbus sales chief John Leahy, known for seducing airlines worldwide with his honeyed voice and sharp pitches.

Less than a week later, the sides had agreed a handshake deal, according to people familiar with the deal, who asked not to be identified because the deliberations were private. Emirates would take another 36 A380s worth $17 billion, bringing its total to a staggering 178 aircraft, more than half the model’s entire order book, the people said. The upcoming air show in Dubai provided the ideal backdrop to unveil the accord, a farewell gift from Emirates to Leahy, who had tied his retirement to the program-saving sale.

Officials at Airbus and Emirates and declined to comment.

Yet in the space of a few days the plan unraveled, and Leahy’s victory lap turned into a public humiliation. At the heart of the turnabout was concern at Emirates about the commitment of Airbus to carry on developing the A380, with the carrier loath to place on order only to see the program terminated a few years later, leaving it as the biggest operator of a dead-end model. It pushed the planemaker to buy back some its oldest jets to help ease those concerns.

Airbus clearly needed the deal to bolster the dwindling superjumbo backlog and keep production ticking over, but could it be trusted to carry on investing in the 550-seat jet in the blind hope that much-needed orders from beyond the Gulf would somehow materialise?

Significantly, Emirates also had no agreement in place with engine supplier Rolls-Royce Holdings Plc, said the people. The carrier’s last A380 deal for 50 planes in 2015 saw it switch to the U.K. manufacturer following a pitch that was keenly priced and offered particularly appealing
terms for the maintenance work from which engine-makers usually draw most of their profits.

Standoff

As Rolls retrenches under CEO Warren East, a similar offer is off the table, along with an earlier pledge to upgrade the Trent 900 turbine that powers the superjumbo, introducing further imponderables into Emirates’s calculations. Representatives at the engine maker declined to comment.

Al Redha, responsible for engineering and flight operations and seen as one of the strongest internal candidates to succeed Clark, 67, was among those to highlight the doubts, people familiar said. As concerns mounted and Sheikh Ahmed -- the uncle of Dubai’s ruler and not often involved at the business-end of major orders -- prepared to show up at the press conference, Emirates representatives approached Airbus on Sunday to break the bad news.

The decision has created a standoff between the airline and the manufacturer, with Clark saying of Airbus that the future of the order is “in their hands,” while Leahy, questioned on whether the sale might be resurrected, replied: “Ask them.”

Fabrice Bregier, Airbus’s chief operating officer and the head of its jetliner business, offered a calmer assessment in an interview with Bloomberg TV.

There remained a prospect of rescuing the transaction before the end of the year, perhaps even in “a few more weeks,” he said.

At the same time, he commented for the first time on the scale of the decision now facing the manufacturer, revealing that a deal with Emirates will ultimately require a pledge to stand by the A380 come what may and to “massively” upgrade it in the future, saying:

“If we finalize it we will be committed to producing this aircraft, I believe, for at least for the next 10 years.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... evaporated


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