Pilatus crash, blizzard, SD

[3WE]

Sounds like a do it yourselfer who wanted a flying 12 passenger Ford Econoline.

Crashed shortly after takeoff in “blizzard like conditions”.

Several did died, but a couple of survivors.

Due to there being survivors, I will speculate that the crash basically happened on takeoff.

Then again, engine failure would fit.

Icing? Spatial disorientation with failure to activate autopilot? Less likely?

The pilot known as “a good, careful pilot”? Probably.

Get there itus? I find that concept true, but much much less clear than it used to be.

Would this crash “never happen to me” (or Gabieee or Ericee)...other than the obvious answer, who knows.

Would this crash never happened to flyboy?

I’m sure it would not, BUT because of his genius and honed airmanship, OR because he’d avoid single engine general aviation in significant weather like the plague?

[KPryor]

It was a family hunting trip using the corporate plane. Last I knew, the pilot hasn't been identified but it was believed it was one of the family who was a certificated private pilot with IFR.
Metar at around the time of the crash was this: K9V9 301835Z AUTO 02006KT 1/2SM SN OVC005 01/01 A2930 RMK AO2 T00080008
Not exactly the kind of conditions I'd want to take off in, especially carrying a significant number of family members on board. I read that this airport has no hangars and no ability to de-ice and aircraft.
I'm betting spacial disorientation with a touch of ice/snow contamination on the plane.

[3WE]

I would welcome flaming, but I didn’t think an instrument takeoff was that big of a deal (as Bobby wants to make it).

Slightly tougher spatial disorientation, but watching an attitude indicator and keeping FDnH is pretty damn basic...not very different from initiating a climb in IMC.

I did a few hooded takeoffs and the objective was to pretend you hit unplanned zero visibility and maintain Uber precise headings so you don’t go off the side. Disclaimer- light and shadows makes a hood marginally effective.

Ok, talking in circles as a botched takeoff is on the short list of speculation.

[flyboy2548m]

I'm assuming at least some of those kids were lap children, because there is no way you can shove 12 seats into a PC-12.

[3WE]

I'm assuming at least some of those kids were lap children, because there is no way you can shove 12 seats into a PC-12.

Gabe provided this link, there,: http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/11/p ... ident.html

Not really "lap children", and if the hunt was successful, passengers, guns and game...Weight and Balance becomes suspect.

[Gabriel]

I'm assuming at least some of those kids were lap children, because there is no way you can shove 12 seats into a PC-12.

Gabe provided this link, there,: http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/11/p ... ident.html

Not really "lap children", and if the hunt was successful, passengers, guns and game...Weight and Balance becomes suspect.

Flyboy has a point though. The maximum seating of the PC-12 in high-density config is 11 including the 2 seats in the front.

[flyboy2548m]

Flyboy has a point though. The maximum seating of the PC-12 in high-density config is 11 including the 2 seats in the front.

Indeed, and, moreover, very few in the US are in that configuration. Most are either club or combi config.

Looking at the family photo, the littlest boy might have possibly been on someone's lap, he looks around 4 years old, so I suppose that's possible. Still, that's an awful lot of people for that airplane.

[Gabriel]

Flyboy has a point though. The maximum seating of the PC-12 in high-density config is 11 including the 2 seats in the front.

Indeed, and, moreover, very few in the US are in that configuration.

That's what I guessed. I think Boutique Air has some with this high-dens confing and some in the high-dens club* that seat 10 total. But then that's an airline!

*(there is another less cramped club config that seats 8 total, which I guess is what most private owner/operators would have)

[flyboy2548m]

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Repor ... l&IType=MA

Reminds me of this guy who managed to shove 14 people on a PC-12.

[3WE]

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Repor ... l&IType=MA

Reminds me of this guy who managed to shove 14 people on a PC-12.

And the cause was failure to add fuel deicer and mismanagement of a fuel imbalance. Fascinating.

[3WE]

Today’s learning is that Mr. Airbus FCOM and automation regurgitator has never considered the calculated risk that a school bus of nuns gets lost on a runway with 0.5 miles visibility during takeoff OR landing.

For the first time I see flyboy’s assertion that the userid might represent be two persons.

[flyboy2548m]

For the first time I see flyboy’s assertion that the userid might represent be two persons.

Sweet King Kamehameha, only took you close to a decade!

[3WE]

For the first time I see flyboy’s assertion that the userid might represent be two persons.

Sweet King Kamehameha, only took you close to a decade!

Indeed.

Please note that while my perception was lacking, my attention to the teachings of the ISGPOTM was fairly good.

[3WE]

As Bobby reminds me, I have never truly "done it" professionally, therefore I have one specific question...

Is a plane that sat out all night in sub-freezing weather snow going to NORMALLY require a simple, but good sweeping of everything off?

OR

Will there LIKELY be snow that sticks to the wing and creating a possibly a dangerous scenario, that would require a proper, formal deicing procdeure with fluids?

Thanks in advance.

[flyboy2548m]

As Bobby reminds me, I have never truly "done it" professionally, therefore I have one specific question...

Is a plane that sat out all night in sub-freezing weather snow going to NORMALLY require a simple, but good sweeping of everything off?

OR

Will there LIKELY be snow that sticks to the wing and creating a possibly a dangerous scenario, that would require a proper, formal deicing procdeure with fluids?

Thanks in advance.

For me. the answer is very easy. Such an aircraft will require de-icing with Type I fluid. If when we come to the airplane, there is still active precipitation, it will also require Type IV anti-icing.

[3WE]

I tried Yayhoo/Google for the Iced Hawker...but mostly remember the upside down Continental DC-9.

[flyboy2548m]

I tried Yayhoo/Google for the Iced Hawker...but mostly remember the upside down Continental DC-9.

I punched a date range from 1990 to 2010, and there is nothing even close. I have a sense he made it up, just like the supposed three frozen gear events NetJets had in one day.

[3WE]

I have a sense he made it up, just like the supposed three frozen gear events NetJets had in one day.

I'm sure there may have been an actual crash of some actual business jet somewhere with ice as a root cause...his memory as to the type and location, may not be accurate.

[3WE]

I have a sense he made it up, just like the supposed three frozen gear events NetJets had in one day.

I'm sure there may have been an actual crash of some actual business jet somewhere with ice as a root cause...his memory as to the type and location, may not be accurate.

[Gabriel]

https://www.flyingmag.com/story/news/ns ... dium=email

[3WE]

Errrr...

So, it was exposed to snow, frost? and ice?, but they spent ~3 hours working on it, but apparently they stalled out from seemngly contaminated behavior.

Weight and balance data would be nice- it probably didn’t help.