Evan Mentality

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3WE
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Evan Mentality

Postby 3WE » Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:38 am

A quote from a Facebook group.

Maybe it’s arguably correct, conversely it’s a useful tool that maybe ought to be practiced occasionally so it can be used when needed.

Yeah, Flyboy and Dummy may need to lay off so passengers don’t imagine did dieding, they already have too many real things to terrify themselves.
Did you know that slipping an airplane is not supposed to be a normal thing?

There was a time when a forward slip was standard practice on nearly every landing. This was back when airplanes didn’t have flaps and the stabilized approach concept didn’t exist. Slipping an airplane to correct a bad final (too high) has mostly gone the way of the Wright Flyer (think Orville and Wilbur) except in specific cases.

The Airman Certification Standards (ACS) asks pilot applicants to demonstrate “when and why a forward slip is used during an approach” (Task PA. IV.M.K4).

So, when are we supposed to slip an airplane?

The ACS references the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook (AFH) for guidance on when to slip an airplane. The AFH says slips are to be used:

1. “when obstacles are present during approaches to confined areas”
2. “for power-off emergency landings (engine failure)”.
3. “when flaps are not installed or inoperative”.
4. “to adjust airplane track on final with crosswinds”.

Takeaway: The FAA says there is a proper time and place for slipping an airplane. By all means practice slips regularly and use them as recommended. Using them to correct a poorly planned final (except in an emergency) is risky business. The FAA reminds us that flying an unstabilized approach (slipping below 500’ agl) is a recipe for a bad day. If you think you need to slip to lose altitude it’s better to just go-around and try again.

Fly safe friends
Footnote: I think I’ll double post for trolling purposes .
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Gabriel
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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby Gabriel » Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:33 pm

Maybe it’s arguably correct, conversely it’s a useful tool that maybe ought to be practiced occasionally so it can be used when needed.
Why "conversely"? That is EXACTLY what he is saying. So if he is correct, THEN it IS a useful tool that must be practiced regularly by nothing less than all means. Not conversely.

His only point was not use it as an "on demand" tool to correct a screwed-up too-high approach that was not planned like that, unless you cannot go around which would be the preferred option to fix that. I am not sure I 100% agree with that, but that's a different discussion.

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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby 3WE » Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:49 pm

His only point was not use it as an "on demand" tool to correct a screwed-up too-high approach that was not planned like that, unless you cannot go around which would be the preferred option to fix that. I am not sure I 100% agree with that, but that's a different discussion.
Real life is humorous.

I was strongly influenced by some key sentences and interpreted that we should lay off of slips for day to day usage because it goes against the latest Airpersons Procedure Manual…

It seems you felt that was his ONLY point and you don’t agree with it. (So we agree). (Not arguing, laughing over colloquialisms.)

On second reading, it seemed less stringent, but yeah, you picked up on a shred of disdain for using it to burn altitude…

One pleasure flight (I drove) was getting BFRy and the instructor insisted on lots of altitude and a steep approach for single engine planes: “If you’re ever going to loose an engine it’s when you power back”. I don’t think that’s completely correct, CONVERSELY, it does happen and 3 degrees doesn’t work in the 172-Glider conversion…

Anyway, we probably shouldn’t be wantonly slipping, but I’d consider it ok for occasional use.
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Gabriel
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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby Gabriel » Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:31 am

His only point was not use it as an "on demand" tool to correct a screwed-up too-high approach that was not planned like that, unless you cannot go around which would be the preferred option to fix that. I am not sure I 100% agree with that, but that's a different discussion.
Real life is humorous.

I was strongly influenced by some key sentences and interpreted that we should lay off of slips for day to day usage because it goes against the latest Airpersons Procedure Manual…

It seems you felt that was his ONLY point and you don’t agree with it. (So we agree). (Not arguing, laughing over colloquialisms.)

On second reading, it seemed less stringent, but yeah, you picked up on a shred of disdain for using it to burn altitude…

One pleasure flight (I drove) was getting BFRy and the instructor insisted on lots of altitude and a steep approach for single engine planes: “If you’re ever going to loose an engine it’s when you power back”. I don’t think that’s completely correct, CONVERSELY, it does happen and 3 degrees doesn’t work in the 172-Glider conversion…

Anyway, we probably shouldn’t be wantonly slipping, but I’d consider it ok for occasional use.
My typical approach.
I am too high. Cut the throttle.
Still too high. Full flaps.
Still to high. Full-rudder slip.
Remove slip when glide path ok to continue with full flaps and no power (many times in the flare).
Or if still to high, now yes go around.

It was extremely unusual that I would come with power until the flare, or that after cutting the throttle I would need to add power again because I was too low.

All these "I'm too high" where intentional because my instructor taught me that I needed to reach the runway after losing the engine at any point in the pattern. And he would cut the throttle and call "engine failure" at any point in the pattern.

But I don't know... Losing an engine may be dangerous. Coming with -1500fpm at 150ft AGL and crossed controls (including full rudder) is not without its dangers too. Although it did save the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider.

This is not_me, but could have been. I've done exactly that many times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWjjBScQ4do

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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby 3WE » Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:16 pm

Cut the throttle.
Full flaps.
Full-rudder slip.
Don’t tell Evan, Cessna POHs and placards SUGGEST not_doing this due to a funky elevator oscillation that occurs :lol:

Of course if you read the FCOM (common sense is not allowed) it says screw it if you have an engine failure and need to dump the flaps AND slip….

In 1978 at Spirit of Flyover (one 7000 ft runway at the time), the procedure for wake turbulence following a business jet was: Arrive at the threshold at 800 ft, chop the power, dump the 40 degree airfoil modification devices. Making the midfield turnoff wasn't a challenge, so we didn’t do much slipping.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby ocelot » Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:49 am

This is not_me, but could have been. I've done exactly that many times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWjjBScQ4do
Most planes if you try that you'll float right off the end of the runway...

(how is this off-topic?)

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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby 3WE » Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:20 pm

(how is this off-topic?)
It’s been a few days, but I think I hit the POST button and then said, “Oh shit, I’m in the off topic forum” (100% serious)

[not italics]We know the rest of the story regarding delete and edit features.

Sorry ;)
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Gabriel
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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby Gabriel » Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:39 pm

(how is this off-topic?)
It’s been a few days, but I think I hit the POST button and then said, “Oh shit, I’m in the off topic forum” (100% serious)

[not italics]We know the rest of the story regarding delete and edit features.

Sorry ;)
You failed to adhere to established type-specific procedure and to run the memory items.

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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby 3WE » Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:15 am

You failed to adhere to established type-specific procedure and to run the memory items.
Turn and burn, cowboy seat of the pants improvising full speed ahead (while posting during the middle of my sleep cycle).
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Gabriel
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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby Gabriel » Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:44 am

Unstabilized approach, go around go around you cowboy pilot improviser!!! (cue the thread title)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wJ739Ld8o8A

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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby elaw » Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:23 pm

Unstabilized approach, go around go around you cowboy pilot improviser!!! (cue the thread title)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wJ739Ld8o8A
So the dude does a little decrabbing on final... what's the big deal? :mrgreen:
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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby 3WE » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:25 pm

Unstabilized approach, go around go around you cowboy monkey idiot improviser!!! (cue the thread title)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wJ739Ld8o8A
[minor modifications]

Indeed…

Totally, 100%, absolutely
not_stabilized

…at all…whatsoever…
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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby Gabriel » Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:20 pm

Unstabilized approach, go around go around you cowboy monkey idiot improviser!!! (cue the thread title)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wJ739Ld8o8A
[minor modifications]

Indeed…

Totally, 100%, absolutely
not_stabilized

…at all…whatsoever…
It's an entirely different kind of approach, altogether.

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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby 3WE » Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:27 pm

Unstabilized approach, go around go around you cowboy monkey idiot improviser!!! (cue the thread title)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wJ739Ld8o8A
[minor modifications]

Indeed…

Totally, 100%, absolutely
not_stabilized

…at all…whatsoever…
It's an entirely different kind of approach, altogether.
While I’m SUPPOSED to repeat the first seven words, I’m serious that it’s a very stabilized approach…and don’t call me Shirley (or Evan).
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Re: Evan Mentality

Postby ocelot » Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:07 am

Maybe the airport has a Checker Board. We wouldn't be able to see it in the video.


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