Pontificating on hard landings...

[3WE]

Part 1: I have a genuine question: ARGUABLY, and from the vantage point of a keyboard, should LH-B'747's guys maybe just "salvaged" the bounce instead of going around? You don't necessarily have great airspeed and engine power right then, so why fight getting those things back when you are right there above the runway?

I'll even go so far as to predict your response:

Quote=Flyboy: "Given that I was not in the cockpit during the specific event, I cannot offer a good answer."

If you would type "Yes" or "No" it would rank a "Thanks in advance".




Part 2:

As to the generous discussion and insight there, including large doses of black and white mentality, I would like to waste some bytes on Monchie's server with my understanding of the process:

*You are going 150 miles per hour, so you can't phugoid around all day trying to grease the plane on.

*Touch down too gently and the spoilers won't automatically deploy on some types.

*Landing gear is pretty damn good- I remember reading that you could probably fly the glideslope right into the runway and make a perfect landing, maybe not_unlike the flap-jarring one pictured there..

*AND if you make at least a little effort to flare and hold off (and use ground effect), the landing will be extremely OK.

Bottom line #1: There is very little effort put into making greaser-landings in airliners.

Bottom line #2: CONVERSELY, as Bobby implied, I would ass-ume, pilots are trying to make landings that prevent dead-heading pilots from snarky grins...maybe you even get off on private pilots complimenting you?

Bottom line #3: I don't think there's too much to analyze on the hard landing in the video, there. It looked like a good approach and maybe the newbie just didn't have the right touch to set it down more normal. As all of [not_italics] you said, just a botched, kinda-hard, but otherwise, perfect landing.

If I said anything grossly wrong in part 2, please advise.

Happy Airbussing.

[elaw]

I think the "by the book" answer for airliners is very simple: if you bounce, you go around. Period. I think "experts" recommend the same philosophy for light planes, but I'm pretty sure early in my training my instructor guiding me on recovering from a bounced landing, and the recovery did not involve going around.

I think in either case, the unwritten rule is that it depends on the magnitude of the bounce and the amount of available runway. If you're in a 172 landing on a 10000' runway and bounce it a little right near the numbers, you probably have enough runway remaining to make another landing attempt or 10. But if you're in a 747 landing (hypothetically) on a 5000' runway in the rain and you bounce it hard, you're probably going fast enough that if you "recover" from the bounce and even set it on perfectly the 2nd time, there won't be enough runway left to stop.

So I guess to an extent it comes down to judgement, but this is 2024 and we're not allowed to say that.

[Gabriel]

I think the "by the book" answer for airliners is very simple: if you bounce, you go around. Period.

I have never seen a book that said such a thing. Normally the recommendation is in a small bounce don't lower the nose, hold the pitch. In a big bounce or long float following a bounce go around. I have thing similar wording both in Boeing and Airbus manuals.

And in the plane that I flew, if I had to go around for every bounce I would still be on the pattern trying to land.

[Not_Karl]

With so much debate about what cowmonkeypilots should or shouldn't do in case of a bounce I now understand McDonald's Douglas' solution for the DC-10/MD-11.

[3WE]

I think the "by the book" answer for airliners is very simple: if you bounce, you go around. Period.

Holy [obscure god]. Who is sending out Evan-black-and-white nanoprobes?

Have you ever done ANY fence perving? Watched landing YouTubez?

Bounces (albethey small) are not_uncommon for airliners, and they don’t result in go-arounds…

Now, a big ass bounce in this incident or Narita…I can see that a go-around might be warranted, but I wouldn’t say absolutely yes. Thus, hoping for flyboy’s $0.02.

[3WE]

Is it sort of a bad idea to slightly nose over in your last 200/100 whatever feet of altitude? (Yes, size matters)

3BS Fundamental Airmanship Rule 236a

[ocelot]

And in the plane that I flew, if I had to go around for every bounce I would still be on the pattern trying to land.

o/~ You must always go around...

[flyboy2548m]

Part 1: I have a genuine question: ARGUABLY, and from the vantage point of a keyboard, should LH-B'747's guys maybe just "salvaged" the bounce instead of going around? You don't necessarily have great airspeed and engine power right then, so why fight getting those things back when you are right there above the runway?

I'll even go so far as to predict your response:

Quote=Flyboy: "Given that I was not in the cockpit during the specific event, I cannot offer a good answer."

If you would type "Yes" or "No" it would rank a "Thanks in advance".




Part 2:

As to the generous discussion and insight there, including large doses of black and white mentality, I would like to waste some bytes on Monchie's server with my understanding of the process:

*You are going 150 miles per hour, so you can't phugoid around all day trying to grease the plane on.

*Touch down too gently and the spoilers won't automatically deploy on some types.

*Landing gear is pretty damn good- I remember reading that you could probably fly the glideslope right into the runway and make a perfect landing, maybe not_unlike the flap-jarring one pictured there..

*AND if you make at least a little effort to flare and hold off (and use ground effect), the landing will be extremely OK.

Bottom line #1: There is very little effort put into making greaser-landings in airliners.

Bottom line #2: CONVERSELY, as Bobby implied, I would ass-ume, pilots are trying to make landings that prevent dead-heading pilots from snarky grins...maybe you even get off on private pilots complimenting you?

Bottom line #3: I don't think there's too much to analyze on the hard landing in the video, there. It looked like a good approach and maybe the newbie just didn't have the right touch to set it down more normal. As all of [not_italics] you said, just a botched, kinda-hard, but otherwise, perfect landing.

If I said anything grossly wrong in part 2, please advise.

Happy Airbussing.

I mean...they actually had 2 bounces, the second one happening because the spoilers were on their way up. Once they went to TOGA, the boards retracted, so off they went. The rotation was also pretty aggressive, but as you said, I wasn't there.

Something worth keeping in mind (and good luck remembering that in the heat of the moment, especially after a smackdown like that!) is that a touch-and-go doesn't require a HUGE amount of runway, so there is no need to yank the airplane off the runway quick and soon. In other words, there is no reason that the rotation rate should be any different than the one during takeoff.

Could they have salvaged it? Probably. Do I disagree with the go-around decision? I do not.