Railroad Thread

[elaw]

https://weather.com/news/trending/video ... in-vermont

Ow!

[elaw]

Our favorite rulemonger there would be impressed: http://www.snugglebunny.us/_bigfiles/MI ... l_1959.pdf

[elaw]

BTW there are a few more interesting files at that same site: http://www.snugglebunny.us/railroad

[Gabriel]

Our favorite rulemonger there would be impressed: http://www.snugglebunny.us/_bigfiles/MI ... l_1959.pdf

MANUAL
OF
INSTRUCTIONS TO AGENTS
AND
OTHER STATION EMPLOYEES
INCLUDING
JUNIOR JANITORS

[elaw]

[Not_Karl]

INCLUDING
JUNIOR JANITORS

You rang?

[J]

Railroads are a lot like the military - filled with instructions to guide people who are not always under immediate supervision. See below for instructions to Pullman waiters on how to serve a bottle of beer.

Regarding recent flooding from Hurricane Hillary, the following drone footage shows washout damage near Palm Springs, CA. The derailed cars are empty intermodal flat cars that were probably being stored in the area. The damage looks bad but railroads have long experience clearing up such messes and getting back into operation. The row of trees along the tracks were planted there decades ago to control drifting sand from accumulating on the tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44nX_zMGWZ4



BEER
1. Ascertain from passenger what kind of Beer is desired.

2. Arrange set-up on bar tray in buffet: one cold bottle of Beer, which has been wiped, standing upright; glass (No. 11) 2/3 full of finely chopped ice (for chilling purpose – making it a distinctive service); glass (No. 12); bottle opener; and paper cocktail napkin. Attendant should carry clean glass towel on his arm with fold pointing forward his hand while rendering service.

3. Proceed to passenger with above set-up.

4. Place bar tray with set-up on table (or etc.).

5. Place paper cocktail napkin on table in front of passenger.

6. Present bottle of Beer to passenger displaying label and cap. Return bottle to bar tray.

7. Pour ice from chilled glass (No. 11) into glass (No. 12).

8. Open bottle of Beer with Bottle opener in presence of passenger (holding bottle at an angle), pointing neck of bottle away from passenger; wipe top of bottle with clean glass towel.

9. Pour Beer into glass (no. 11) by placing top of bottle into glass, and slide the beer* down the side until beer* reaches about 2 inches from top – then put a collar on the beer* by dropping a little in the glass which now should be upright.

10. Place glass containing Beer on paper cocktail napkin.

11. Place bottle containing remainder of Beer on table before passenger, with label facing him.

12. Remove bar tray with equipment not needed by passenger and return to buffet.

[3WE]

“No middle seats”

I love it, although, Gabriel may be more interested in seat pitch, which I will testify, isn’t bad.

I don’t think locomotives have MCAS, the lavs are bigger, but I think they need updated fire handle procedures and maybe fewer guarded switches on the engine cut offs.

https://youtu.be/WvMl8LUzQnk?si=Z_rt58sT7lyBLgJU

[monchavo]

Railroads are a lot like the military - filled with instructions to guide people who are not always under immediate supervision. See below for instructions to Pullman waiters on how to serve a bottle of beer.

Regarding recent flooding from Hurricane Hillary, the following drone footage shows washout damage near Palm Springs, CA. The derailed cars are empty intermodal flat cars that were probably being stored in the area. The damage looks bad but railroads have long experience clearing up such messes and getting back into operation. The row of trees along the tracks were planted there decades ago to control drifting sand from accumulating on the tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44nX_zMGWZ4



BEER
1. Ascertain from passenger what kind of Beer is desired.

2. Arrange set-up on bar tray in buffet: one cold bottle of Beer, which has been wiped, standing upright; glass (No. 11) 2/3 full of finely chopped ice (for chilling purpose – making it a distinctive service); glass (No. 12); bottle opener; and paper cocktail napkin. Attendant should carry clean glass towel on his arm with fold pointing forward his hand while rendering service.

3. Proceed to passenger with above set-up.

4. Place bar tray with set-up on table (or etc.).

5. Place paper cocktail napkin on table in front of passenger.

6. Present bottle of Beer to passenger displaying label and cap. Return bottle to bar tray.

7. Pour ice from chilled glass (No. 11) into glass (No. 12).

8. Open bottle of Beer with Bottle opener in presence of passenger (holding bottle at an angle), pointing neck of bottle away from passenger; wipe top of bottle with clean glass towel.

9. Pour Beer into glass (no. 11) by placing top of bottle into glass, and slide the beer* down the side until beer* reaches about 2 inches from top – then put a collar on the beer* by dropping a little in the glass which now should be upright.

10. Place glass containing Beer on paper cocktail napkin.

11. Place bottle containing remainder of Beer on table before passenger, with label facing him.

12. Remove bar tray with equipment not needed by passenger and return to buffet.

I am interested in where you got that process from!

[J]

Source of Beer Instructions:

https://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/152834/1689534.aspx

[3WE]

Our favorite rulemonger there would be impressed: http://www.snugglebunny.us/_bigfiles/MI ... l_1959.pdf

A VHF scanner is most useful. They have frequencies and clearance systems not_unlike aeroplanie ones...with read-back requirements.

I also sense a very creepy culture of weenie-personality oversight, with little room for thought.

I think said "rulemonger" would be like Sheldon Cooper in a train store.

...and yeah, I listen to that crap and foam at the mouth, too

[J]

It's ok to be interested in transportation. Just don't be like this guy. There is no accident or injury - just a middle-aged man who seems a little too enthusiastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cLZ_JEfB14

[elaw]

It's ok to be interested in transportation. Just don't be like this guy. There is no accident or injury - just a middle-aged man who seems a little too enthusiastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cLZ_JEfB14

SALAMI!!!! SALAMI!!!

[3WE]

I know flyboy sees us as acting very similarly at fences, gates, airplane windows and worst of all, as we pass the cockpit door while boarding...correction, worst of all, on aviation fora.

[Not_Karl]

Interior view from Amazon's van.
Aftermath.
Some deliveries are probably going to get delayed...

I love how the Fiat Ducato is sold under ten thousand trillion brands and names. Here we(Not_italics) have it as Fiat Ducato, Citroën Jumper and Peugeot Boxer at the same time.

[J]

Meters of Snow Forecast for the Sierra Mountains in California

Here is a web cam at Truckee, CA on the eastern slope of the mountains leading down to Reno Nevada. It is about 1000 feet below the summit at Norden. The camera regularly pivots so you can see a Union Pacific railroad crossing in one of the views. Maybe you can spot a snow clearing train at some point.

https://hdontap.com/index.php/video/str ... california

[elaw]

Railroad manages to do what airlines have never done (right?) and have a 3-way collision: https://6abc.com/train-derailment-norfo ... /14485779/

[3WE]

Sending 0 PSI to train brakes is not_as effective as sending thousands of PSI to 747 brakes.

[ocelot]

3-way rail crashes aren't that uncommon, unfortunately. Something about how having track reduces the degrees of freedom for maneuvering...

[J]

The following video shows a derailment of one train while another is passing to give you an idea of how these types of circumstances unfold.

A grain train was traveling west on double track when one of its car's axles failed causing it to derail onto the adjacent track moments before an eastward oil train was approaching. The grain train continued traveling a short while after the derailment before the braking system took hold and brought it to a stop. You can hear a signal maintainer calling the train saying they saw dust flying. At that moment the grain train (finally) called on the radio that they "were in emergency" to warn the oil train. This is standard practice because an unintended application of the emergency brakes could mean something minor like a broken air hose or something serious like this.

The oil train applied its brakes but was unable to slow much before striking the derailed grain car.

Editorial Comment: The NTSB carefully guards audio recordings of aviation crashes and only releases written transcripts, but it had no problem putting this out onto the internet. As people here in the south say, "Bless their hearts!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhraoVIJ1OE

[Gabriel]

The following video shows a derailment of one train while another is passing to give you an idea of how these types of circumstances unfold.

A grain train was traveling west on double track when one of its car's axles failed causing it to derail onto the adjacent track moments before an eastward oil train was approaching. The grain train continued traveling a short while after the derailment before the braking system took hold and brought it to a stop. You can hear a signal maintainer calling the train saying they saw dust flying. At that moment the grain train (finally) called on the radio that they "were in emergency" to warn the oil train. This is standard practice because an unintended application of the emergency brakes could mean something minor like a broken air hose or something serious like this.

The oil train applied its brakes but was unable to slow much before striking the derailed grain car.

Editorial Comment: The NTSB carefully guards audio recordings of aviation crashes and only releases written transcripts, but it had no problem putting this out onto the internet. As people here in the south say, "Bless their hearts!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhraoVIJ1OE

I have been always amazed about how bad trains brake, and I don't understand why. Even if the coefficient of friction was just 0.1 that should provide for a 2.2 mph per second deceleration, provided that it is applied to all the wheels.

The grain train lost 28 mph in 38 seconds of emergency bake application.

The crude oil train lost 1 MPH in 8 seconds of emergency brake application.

WHY???

[elaw]

Good point!

According to the intarwebz, COF is around 0.5 for a dry rail, 0.3 for wet, and a bit less if frost is present. I know leaves can also have an effect but couldn't find a number for that condition, probably because it's so variable.

Dumb question but, do trains have brakes on all the wheels? If there were just one brake per (two-axle) truck, it might explain this.

[Gabriel]

Good point!

According to the intarwebz, COF is around 0.5 for a dry rail, 0.3 for wet, and a bit less if frost is present. I know leaves can also have an effect but couldn't find a number for that condition, probably because it's so variable.

Dumb question but, do trains have brakes on all the wheels? If there were just one brake per (two-axle) truck, it might explain this.

Not a train expert, but I read that trains have brakes on all wheels which are spring loaded in the "max braking" position and the spring is resisted by air pressure. So for normal braking you release part of the pressure and then re-pressurize the lines to release the brakes (there are bladder tanks to be able to fill up the lines and release the brakes quickly) and for emergency braking you just open a valve that quickly depressurizes the lines. There is no need to provide power for braking. On the contrary, if for some reason the pressurized air line breaks or the compressor brakes or anything, the brakes will always fail toward to "full braking" condition due to the spring loading. It was the first major fails-safe invention, and it was done by Westinghouse if I remember correctly.

[elaw]

Not a train expert, but I read that trains have brakes on all wheels which are spring loaded in the "max braking" position and the spring is resisted by air pressure. So for normal braking you release part of the pressure and then re-pressurize the lines to release the brakes (there are bladder tanks to be able to fill up the lines and release the brakes quickly) and for emergency braking you just open a valve that quickly depressurizes the lines. There is no need to provide power for braking. On the contrary, if for some reason the pressurized air line breaks or the compressor brakes or anything, the brakes will always fail toward to "full braking" condition due to the spring loading. It was the first major fails-safe invention, and it was done by Westinghouse if I remember correctly.

In other words, 0 PSI to the brakes...

I'm far from 100% sure of this but I think train systems operate much as you described, but might have locally-stored (in each car) compressed air apply the brakes rather than a spring. I'm guessing that's in part because it's easier to get the needed force from compressed air, and in part because at least some trains have disc brakes (I've seen them on passenger train cars), and applying those with a spring would be a bit tricky.

[J]

Correct, each railcar has a reservoir to store compressed air to apply brakes on the individual cars. Without going into too much detail, the reservoirs contain two compartments - "auxiliary" for standard braking and "emergency" for a faster more forceful action. The air is supplied from compressors on the locomotives via piping and hoses between the cars - known as the "train pipe." When starting a trip, the train pipe and reservoirs are filled with compressed air - at 95 lbs. on the head end and at least 75 lbs. on the rear.

When the engineer / driver wishes to apply the brakes, they move a handle in the locomotive that reduces the air pressure in the train pipe. Control valves on each railcar sense this reduction in pressure and direct stored air pressure from the reservoir to the brake cylinders. In an emergency the train pipe is vented to atmosphere. In the accident above, this happened when the car derailed and undoubtedly disconnected the hoses between it and the adjacent cars. The air pressure dropped quickly, and the brakes applied throughout the train. In the case of the oil train, the engineer moved the brake handle to emergency.

Why did it take so long?
1) The reduced air pressure "signal" travels about 900 feet a second so it takes time for all the brakes to initially apply.
2) The significant weight of the train (about 286,000 lbs or 130,00 kg per car) represents a lot of momentum.

One wonders how much the collision might have been reduced if the grain train crew had called out that their train was in emergency a few seconds earlier. The collision probably would not have been avoided but the aftermath including an oil fire might have been less.