Haneda: a350 and Coastguard Dash 8

[monchavo]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFa ... _on_board/

Footage


Runway incursion?

[elaw]

...results in 5 deaths: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-67862011

[elaw]

https://twitter.com/alto_maple/status/1 ... 3285412984

[3WE]

I blame plate tectonics.

And cowboy, procedure-skipping pilots.

Or Godzilla?

[elaw]

VASAviation video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fItu5qM7QfE

A commenter on another video I saw claims the CG plane was cleared to taxi and hold short of the runway on which the JAL was landing, but entered the runway anyway.

[Not_Karl]

AvieHeraldie entry

[monchavo]

There is a reverse-racist theory in my mind that says any plane full of people other than the Japanese would have been incapable of evacuating this successfully.

If this were Brits or Septics, there's absolutely no way everyone would have got out, because Karen's bag is "MUH IMPUTANT"

Still *astonished* that they all got out from the 350 and with comparably few injuries.

On another point - I hadn't seen illuminated exit chutes before. I love that!

[3WE]

With the exception of the tail fin, these cheap composite cracker boxes may indeed have superior carbon fiber strength in comparison to metallic aeroplanies.

Ditching, Running over turboprops, and then you simply evacuate, and start on the paperwork.

Monchie’s Japanese evacuation comment, obviously cues up Brianie’s disdain for carry-on retrieval.

Ironingly, I have seen Japanese exhibit some amazingly bad social/safety behavior- stopping your car in a traffic lane. The human species is an interesting mess.

[elaw]

Multiple news outlets are saying the Coast Guard aircraft was not cleared onto the runway... example: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 024-01-03/

I could only find one article that showed (as an image) the actual transcript of the communications and it's behind a paywall: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... eddit_wall

[3WE]

We need:

Huge ass spotlights on airplanes that automatically shine up the approach path.

Some kind of real time, clear radar depiction of the runway in the cockpit with beeping and flashing lights.

…on ALL Aircraft, immediately!

And the usual procedures and regulations and oversight and training and firings.

[elaw]

I know this is going to sound like a wild and crazy idea but hear me out...

In some countries, to control when vehicles can and cannot enter intersections, they have these things called "traffic lights". Red = stop, green = go, maybe you've seen one?

Explain to me why that could not work with taxiways vs. runways.

[elaw]

There is a reverse-racist theory in my mind that says any plane full of people other than the Japanese would have been incapable of evacuating this successfully.

Successfully, yes, but apparently not very fast: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20240103_31/

[elaw]

https://www.businessinsider.com/japan-a ... kyo-2024-1

[3WE]

I know this is going to sound like a wild and crazy idea but hear me out...

In some countries, to control when vehicles can and cannot enter intersections, they have these things called "traffic lights". Red = stop, green = go, maybe you've seen one?

Explain to me why that could not work with taxiways vs. runways.

I know we and a few million others have suggested and discussed this, many times before, and I forget, the “why not.” Maybe because it doesn’t work when the tower says line up and wait on a good, old fashioned squeeze play?

I am also semi serious that a REASONABLY bigger-ass rear-facing strobe/beacon seems worthwhile. As much as I drool on airliner windows on downwinds and bases, runways really look like seas of blackness.

Maybe we need to always check in on the frequency we get to roughly 100 Corgis or 50 smoots from the magic dashed line.

[Gabriel]

I know this is going to sound like a wild and crazy idea but hear me out...
"traffic lights".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfWS2J7u2Dk

[Not_Karl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uATow9Mvfu0

[3WE]

Another off-the-wall comment: I remember my fence perving days, a plane would check in with the tower (on my VHF radio), and a massive horizontal pool of landing lights would appear off in the distance (ok, maybe it was only 3). Then a DC-9 would land.

It SEEMS that newer airlineries only have bright lights on the nose gear…

Always having some spread out, bright, wing-mounted, landing lights would seem to be helpful.

[elaw]

I wonder if they found that mounting the lights below the cockpit reduced glare in low-vis conditions like fog?

[Gabriel]

Update:
There were traffic lights (stop bars).
They were out of service.

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/why ... he-runway/

[tds]

Good edit of the ATC comms here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLMj1BnmNFA

[3WE]

Double post infraction, but the implications that the lack of a red light causing unintended primary/backup inversion is interesting.

Also, is there any chance the -8 had a working CVR? That’s the only hope of really understanding this.

[elaw]

I sure hope so!

Though if there was ever an accident that would test a CVR's fire resistance, this is probably the one (for both planes).

[3WE]

I saw a video looking back from the front right. It sort of looked like the R2 engine was spitting sparks.

There’s a lot more details we need to hear, but I wonder if there was a delay while the pilots tried unsuccessfully, to shut down the engine(s)?

I also want to see a better timeline of the evacuation, including when it will as “mostly” over.

I also enjoyed ATL’s input, there.

[elaw]

New VASAviation vid with animation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmkAEkss5cs

[3WE]

WSJ printed an update article: There was a “runway status indicator” in the tower that turned yellow when the Dash-8 entered the runway.

Maybe we need said depictions in the cockpit?…(yes, more failure-prone beeping lights).