Thunderstorm landing double post...

[3WE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb-u8j9gX7I

As stated there it certainly looked nasty.

Among the more interesting video's I've seen- it looked at least a little bit intense there on short final...

Safety safety safety, breifing, weather radar, wind check, decent visual conditions, noteworthy wind-gust cloud formations, but we barge full-bore down to altitudes at which Delta 191 had climb problems (admittedly, they were in a rainshaft/downdraft...)

[ocelot]

It's hard to tell how much too low they really got without being able to see out the front.

[3WE]

It's hard to tell how much too low they really got without being able to see out the front.

I don’t know how low they got, BUT my $0.02 is that it wasn’t a last-second, Uber-low go around, but instead, healthy with a good safety margin…

BUT- I more so question initiating the approach so close to a basic mean thunderstorm.

I made a post there that I mostly notice the divergent case of guys taking 200 mile enroute diversions around storms- an extreme contrast to this.

[ocelot]

Judging by when the airport fence appeared, I think they were low. But it's hard to be certain. As for doing it at all... other than the dramatic views of wall cloud it didn't seem all that sporty and they didn't seem to be getting an especially bumpy ride, but maybe I'm underestimating that.

Note that they were not in the path of the storm; unless I'm vastly mistaken they were crossing south of it.

Cruise diversions aren't comparable because for one thing you're going faster and can't make tight turns, and for another storms often broadcast clear air turbulence to the sides, and I think that's chiefly a high-altitude phenomenon.

Also while I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, gust fronts and microbursts and whatnot are associated with particular areas of storms (like tornados are associated with the back edge) and I think they're not approaching in the hazard zone. Right at the beginning when turning to final they are not in such a good position, but they still have plenty of altitude there.

I'm not going to claim that shooting that landing was a prudent decision, but I don't think it was recklessly insane.

[3WE]

Your enroute comments do not hold water.

Sorry for using local examples, but maps are readily available. One day a healthy, long line of storms was situated SW-NE over KSTL. A Delta plane and WN plane departed KATL for KSTL minutes apart.

The WN plane took a mostly normal routing, did the BOOSH arrival (more or less) and landed. Sure there were probably deviations using on board radar, etc, BUT THEY WERE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL with the storms.

As a stark contrast, the Delta plane flew to the SGF VOR 200 or so miles PAST KSTL, started on the KAYLA arrival, did several holds, THE WHOLE TIME BEING 100 to 200 NM away from storms.

Also, your Tornado SW thing is an over simplification. Discrete super cells do make tornadoes in the SW side. Linear storm systems start with gusty winds on the SE side WITH GENTLE WINDS FOLLOWING. Linear storms also form leading edge tornadoes.

As you saw- those shelf clouds are related to gust fronts, etc.

My point remains that there’s a whole lot of inconsistencies with “let’s give this a try” versus giving it a WIDE berth.

It ALSO varies with big terminals, where a constant stream of arrivals can report and track that the storms are gentle- versus blowing in to Cowpatch with a basic wind check.

Arguably- the on-board wind shear detection might have shown OK for the RJ- but still the contrast of the plane going 200 miles out of the way- while the other goes straight there.

PS: while I am referring to one day- I can go to the flight tracker on any stormy day and find many inconsistencies. Also of note is that KSTL is a very un-busy airport- so pretty certain the 200 mile detour was by choice.

Footnote: There is also this all time favorite (which I have posted too many times): A plane departs into a tornado warned storm and flies straight to the hot spot and next to a tornado at KSTL. Being a local, I know that vastly different departure headings are available.

https://youtu.be/bsACwJkp0CI

[3WE]

Another, edited version of getting intimate with ‘naders:

https://youtu.be/D5CLNC1kPsQ

[3WE]

8/8/2021…

Nothing too interesting- BUT two low-altitude prop planes thread the needle (a slight exaggeration) BUT A BIG IRON GUY, takes a big fat northerly diversion, when he could equally (if not Better) use gaps like the dink planes.

1403B774-1413-4E61-B4C1-392A3D2C051D.png (1.42 MiB) Viewed 3844 times

[3WE]

Here we go- guys going 150 miles South, out of the way with a pretty decent separation vs. the ERJ being right next to storms.

[Gabriel]

Perhaps the ERJ is at 35000 ft?
Isn't it green = departures, blue = arrivals, grey = neither?

[3WE]

Memphis to STL via Springfield- while reckless cowboy improvisers shoot the gap.

6C071596-48FD-44FE-95A2-36B38E3BFCAA.png (1.24 MiB) Viewed 3838 times

[3WE]

Perhaps the ERJ is at 35000 ft?
Isn't it green = departures, blue = arrivals, grey = neither?

Ummm, perhaps it is. I guess it a lot better to be 500 feet off the ground when you encounter wind gusts, shear and down bursts??? Worked out OK for Delta 191, Ozark 809, Pan Am 759, …

[3WE]

Guys are STILL going to Springfield, even though some are shooting a really wide gap with light rain…I guess there could be a lot of turbulence in that gap, enough to make SGF preferable, good thing jet fuel is cheap.

Of note is that the southern end of that line is somewhat nasty.

2069065D-FF87-4C07-B475-5E92C0E804C2.png (1.25 MiB) Viewed 3831 times

[3WE]

I’m turning right behind the storms (oh shit, too close, back left, just a tad)…I’m going all the way to SGF. I’m splitting the difference…

Maybe ATC is “calling” the turns, conversely, many of these routes are ‘improvised’ versus the true, published arrivals…

311A803F-9D24-407B-B836-9408202387B8.png (1.2 MiB) Viewed 3830 times

[ocelot]

Another thing to remember is that they're going by what their onboard weather radar tells them, which is not what you see from the ground-based radar.

But IDK. I guess there's a lot of variance in risk assessment.

[3WE]

But IDK. I guess there's a lot of variance in risk assessment.

That’s my point!!!!

Taking off into tornadoes, one day, 200 mile diversions another.

One plane shoots a SEEMINGLY narrow gap, another gives things a WIDE berth.

Also, IDK does apply to some degree, but not totally.